$20K, trade it or go for a MS in Finance

[thehangingman]

Imagine if this was 2002, what would all these guys be saying to you about taking 20k and getting to it on IB.

In 2005, everyone was saying "Buy real estate!". Now they are saying "Trade away!".

All these guys are giving you advice based upon the fact they had a good year in 2006. There is no guarantees that this pace will keep up. The fact of the matter is that when the market cools down again and isnt such a great place to trade these same guys will be moving onto the next investment vehicle whether it be real estate again or panning for gold in the Colorado River.

Then there is a guy in a response who states his sister has 7 figures and owns a bunch of real estate creating this image that everyone is rich in the world.

You must think long term. What will happen to you over the course of the next 30 years? Now, of course, an MBA doesnt guarantee you a great job. Its your personality, charisma, creativity, aggressiveness and how you apply yourself is what truly matters.

Think of these traders as the real estate agents of yesterday. They are just another form. Eventually their attention will turn elsewhere.

I will tell you what happens to people when they stop working. They die. How many healthy retired people do you know? The people that work seem to be the healthiest and liveliest crowd.

Those that sit on their ass and do not make decisions live short and tired lives.

If you find that you are being treated with disrespect at a workplace, its not them, its really you. You should find a way to make them respect you. If you cant find a way to make people respect you, then the flaw is within you not them. Dont try to escape your personal flaws by using trading as an escape hatch.

There are very few rich traders. All those guys in Fortune appear to have done it another way...When and if the market tanks again in the future, most of these guys will disappear. Some will have lost a great deal or have found that their old momentum strategy no longer works. Some will have tried to short the market only to get whipsawed back out. Ultimately, these guys will be 40 something and trying to find a job while wishing they had only gone for the MBA.

 

[jack hershey]

Quote from hermit_trader:

I got a MS in other field. I wonder whether it is worthwhile to go for another MS/MBA in Finance.

I have been trading for a while but the result is medicore.

My dream is one day I can trade for a good living!

As in the author of the book High Probability Trading said, you need to assume your initial capital as the tutition fee i.e. you lose it in order to learn how to trade.

So you have read posts here for four years and made under 200 posts.

Your current trading is as you describe.

You have an MS and that is often considered a professional degree. It also means that you have met friends in grad school and maybe keep in touch with them.

Throw the high probability book in the river. On your way back from the river buy a block of steno pads and some sharpies and hiliters and pens and pencils. Get two cases of paper and some ink cartridges, as well.

You know how to learn; you have degrees to prove it.

Sit down and write a fully annotated and supported business plan. What I mean is 12 main sections and full blown spread sheets and everything for th next five years, two years monthly and three years quarterly.

To get it up to about 400 pages before the end of January, you add appendicies that specifically note in 100 pages what you have done the last four years. Equally important document your learning and study plan (a 100 pages or so). The other large appendix is an expansion on three levels of the part of the business plan that describes just how the capital appreciation is acheived. This will be about 100 pages as well.

To do this set up about 10 three ring binders with print outs from the web on the topics and subjects put forth in each of the 100 pagers. Footnote every reference in each 100 pager as it refers to the three ring binder print outs.

Tell me at what point you reach millionaire.

Since that is the eventuality you are facing, then start behaving like a millionaire.

Get to work.

 

[trade4succes]

Quote from hermit_trader:

If you have $20K, would u use it to trade or you would go for a MBA/MS in Finance/Financial Engineering? Which one would let you learn more?

i would go for short term pain, long term gain: get the ms financial engineering

 

[ssternlight]

Quote from thehangingman:

Imagine if this was 2002, what would all these guys be saying to you about taking 20k and getting to it on IB.

In 2005, everyone was saying "Buy real estate!". Now they are saying "Trade away!".

All these guys are giving you advice based upon the fact they had a good year in 2006. There is no guarantees that this pace will keep up. The fact of the matter is that when the market cools down again and isnt such a great place to trade these same guys will be moving onto the next investment vehicle whether it be real estate again or panning for gold in the Colorado River.

Then there is a guy in a response who states his sister has 7 figures and owns a bunch of real estate creating this image that everyone is rich in the world.

You must think long term. What will happen to you over the course of the next 30 years? Now, of course, an MBA doesnt guarantee you a great job. Its your personality, charisma, creativity, aggressiveness and how you apply yourself is what truly matters.

Think of these traders as the real estate agents of yesterday. They are just another form. Eventually their attention will turn elsewhere.

I will tell you what happens to people when they stop working. They die. How many healthy retired people do you know? The people that work seem to be the healthiest and liveliest crowd.

Those that sit on their ass and do not make decisions live short and tired lives.

If you find that you are being treated with disrespect at a workplace, its not them, its really you. You should find a way to make them respect you. If you cant find a way to make people respect you, then the flaw is within you not them. Dont try to escape your personal flaws by using trading as an escape hatch.

There are very few rich traders. All those guys in Fortune appear to have done it another way...When and if the market tanks again in the future, most of these guys will disappear. Some will have lost a great deal or have found that their old momentum strategy no longer works. Some will have tried to short the market only to get whipsawed back out. Ultimately, these guys will be 40 something and trying to find a job while wishing they had only gone for the MBA.

Projections aside, if you actually "read" the thread you would see the MBA is winning by something like 5:1.

Having said that, making the most of an MBA has almost as many wrinkles to it as trading. Due to the shift in pricing, the cost/benefit analysis isn't nearly as beneficial as it used to be.

 

[cknucks]

Quote from hermit_trader:

If you have $20K, would u use it to trade or you would go for a MBA/MS in Finance/Financial Engineering? Which one would let you learn more?

Rate of return on your career is a likely lot higher. If you can get into a good program, invest it into yourself. It'll pay off handsomely either directly [job] or indirectly [trading ideas] in future.

 

[aeliodon]

A B.S. nowadays is the equivalent to a high school diploma.
I'd say you may be better off getting a job first a the type a company that will pay for your masters, then go for it.
You have you whole life to learn trading and trading is best learned trading the longer time frames using eod data to start off.

 

[MattF]

that would be the super ideal situation; a company that pays (or helps to pay) toward getting your Masters...then *maybe* in a bit of spare time here and there, practice/do some light trading...

why not shoot for that? It'd be the most grueling of the ideas, but the knowledge would be instrumental.

 

[JimmyJam]

Quote from thehangingman:

Imagine if this was 2002, what would all these guys be saying to you about taking 20k and getting to it on IB.

In 2005, everyone was saying "Buy real estate!". Now they are saying "Trade away!".

All these guys are giving you advice based upon the fact they had a good year in 2006. There is no guarantees that this pace will keep up. The fact of the matter is that when the market cools down again and isn't such a great place to trade these same guys will be moving onto the next investment vehicle whether it be real estate again or panning for gold in the Colorado River.

I gave'em advice based on the fact that I know how to trade, I'm looking forward with baited breath to 2007, whether the market chops around, breaks out to continued new highs or gets ready for a huge bear dive (patience patience), I'll be on it (in fact I really like BEAR MARKETS) ... so please speak from what you know, not from what you think.

Note that I also said we didn't know enough about his situation to really make a judgement call (before he said he was just an OK trader), now that he has said he's a mediocre trader (which I kinda figured as much, if he really had skills, he never would have made the post - except maybe for curiosity's sake) ... well, he's grown, I'll let him make his own decisions ...

Then there is a guy in a response who states his sister has 7 figures and owns a bunch of real estate creating this image that everyone is rich in the world.

I didn't get that impression at all from what ssternlight said, I got the impression that his sister is a very savy business woman who has made a few judicious moves that incorporated being at the right time and at the right place, which will guarantee her well-being in this world for her lifetime and the lifetime of her kids if she has any.

You must think long term. What will happen to you over the course of the next 30 years? Now, of course, an MBA doesn't guarantee you a great job. Its your personality, charisma, creativity, aggressiveness and how you apply yourself is what truly matters.

Actually doing what is going to make the OP happy is probably the best recourse, not doing what daddy says.

Think of these traders as the real estate agents of yesterday. They are just another form. Eventually their attention will turn elsewhere.

I will tell you what happens to people when they stop working. They die. How many healthy retired people do you know? The people that work seem to be the healthiest and liveliest crowd.

Yes, that's true ... and people who create wealth for themselves and the people they care about in this world, have all the time they want to vacation, see the world and do things they want to do on their time and enjoy a great lifestyle are probably the healthiest and liveliest ones of all.

Those that sit on their ass and do not make decisions live short and tired lives.

Who are you referring to here, traders? If that's really what you think trading is you're telling us all about yourself ... I assure, that's not trading.

If you find that you are being treated with disrespect at a workplace, its not them, its really you. You should find a way to make them respect you. If you cant find a way to make people respect you, then the flaw is within you not them. Dont try to escape your personal flaws by using trading as an escape hatch.

There is some truth to that, but it's very limited (just like your other ideas). If you really think it is as simple as that your post is continuing to speak volumes about your flaws.

There are very few rich traders. All those guys in Fortune appear to have done it another way...When and if the market tanks again in the future, most of these guys will disappear.

I'm telling you folks, if this guy actually believes this he doesn't trade (or he just ain't that good at it).

Some will have lost a great deal or have found that their old momentum strategy no longer works. Some will have tried to short the market only to get whipsawed back out. Ultimately, these guys will be 40 something and trying to find a job while wishing they had only gone for the MBA.

Hey you're right, I'd better hurry-up and go get my MBA while there's still time ... :eek: Although you might find it hard to believe, not everyone wants or needs an MBA.

OK, that's enough time one this subject, I gotta go doing something of value to me.

Later,

Jimmy Jam

 

[El OchoCinco]

Actually the question was concerning a Masters in Finance. An MBA is useless for trading/investing unless you want to work as an analyst.

The MSF is definitely worth it if you have a long-term career goal in trading and investing. If you just want to gmable with mad money you can do that now.

Also, think of time value of money, you can borrow the money to go to school easily and put away the $20k and when you graduate start using it to pay down the loan while looking for a job or starting that new one. Let the $20K be a cushion for now just in case.

Quote from ssternlight:

Projections aside, if you actually "read" the thread you would see the MBA is winning by something like 5:1.

Having said that, making the most of an MBA has almost as many wrinkles to it as trading. Due to the shift in pricing, the cost/benefit analysis isn't nearly as beneficial as it used to be.

 

[ssternlight]

Quote from optioncoach:

Actually the question was concerning a Masters in Finance. An MBA is useless for trading/investing unless you want to work as an analyst.

The MSF is definitely worth it if you have a long-term career goal in trading and investing. If you just want to gmable with mad money you can do that now.

Also, think of time value of money, you can borrow the money to go to school easily and put away the $20k and when you graduate start using it to pay down the loan while looking for a job or starting that new one. Let the $20K be a cushion for now just in case.

OC,

If you look at the first post he mentioned both...

If we wanted to extend the available options the CFA is much cheaper than either and carries a great deal of weight in the investment community these days. If I was in my early 20's and wanted a cheap way in I'd probably go for that while trying to get work on a desk somewhere.