$20,000 Coaching Session with Jai Ramoutar?

dgabriel · Jun 13, 2003

Quote from RAMOUTAR:

He bought himself a 150' yacht and trades from South Beach Miami, the back of is boat says "THE SEC WON'T LET ME BE" All-Tech name is gone, but DOMS and HMSS is still running strong. When he makes it up north, we still talk and go to yard sales together. He's still trading ACTIVELY and having fun, even though he can't dress. We gotta love the guy, it was him who direct access, ECNs, and decimalization possible. LOL!! Don't bite Jack, I didn't get the shot, and I heard it's PAINFUL

Houtkin capitalized on an arbitrage opportunity after the advent of SOES, an opportunity which was soon closed.

AllTech's in house trading account lost 300k or so in its last year.

RAMOUTAR · Jun 13, 2003

This will be my last reply on Harvey. I reply again, because he's a friend, I won't reply again because he's doing fine all by himself.

Yes, SOES got whacked so he reinvented himself with prop, and took the ATTN ecn went to the moon, when that got tough he invented NOCI.

http://www.nasdaqtrader.com/asp/mma...epType=2&cboMARDate=05-01-2003&MARSearchDate=

That link will show you what he did, ATTN fee was $15.00 per 1K, and then to $9.00 per 1k, not a bad living. They're on to something big I'm told, we'll see in next few weeks.

God bless him. I thank him for SOES, ECNs, Super SOES, Super Montage and decimals, and how to shop at yard sales.

Be well!

RAMOUTAR · Jun 13, 2003

I testified at US Senate. The $300K loss was in hedge account, there was $300K gain on other side. If you remember, hedge accounts allowed you to hit downtick bids to get short, because hedge account was long. The US Senate PSI investigation led by REP. Collins revealed adn corrected in testimony by Senator Phil Gramm. If you need links, P/M me.

Bottom line is, this guy made a ton of money. So while I'm friends with him, I don't feel sorry for him.

speedy · Jun 13, 2003

Quote from RAMOUTAR:

This will be my last reply on Harvey. I reply again, because he's a friend, I won't reply again because he's doing fine all by himself.

Yes, SOES got whacked so he reinvented himself with prop, and took the ATTN ecn went to the moon, when that got tough he invented NOCI.

http://www.nasdaqtrader.com/asp/mma...epType=2&cboMARDate=05-01-2003&MARSearchDate=

That link will show you what he did, ATTN fee was $15.00 per 1K, and then to $9.00 per 1k, not a bad living. They're on to something big I'm told, we'll see in next few weeks.

God bless him. I thank him for SOES, ECNs, Super SOES, Super Montage and decimals, and how to shop at yard sales.

Be well!

I never even see ATTN in the montage anymore? And I was told that no was paying those outrages rates for hitting their ecn. Just like Mkxt. I'm surprised their still around.

DHOHHI · Jun 14, 2003

Quote from RAMOUTAR:

Dhohhi, you raise some excellent and very intelligent questions. Let me answer all of your questions:

1) Montvale had 4 week classes for $5K (Four Phase) and the money was rebated back on trades, and 1 week classes for $3.5K (bootcamps). I taught in Montvale and all over the world. I'm glad to hear that you weren't pushed into training by branch managers (please P/M me the locale of the branch where you traded), I would crush the grapes of any B/M that did that.

2) The primary strategies were momentum, (LevelII, SNET and INCA fishing and fill analysis, etc) as Harvey abhorred TA, and it wasn't until I fought him and won, that it became part of the curriculum. Harvey wasn't a believer in TA. However, he couldn't argue the performance in the accounts I traded. Before the SEC Order Handling Rule of '97 was passed, 1/4's and 1/8ths were still rampant, then "teenies" and then the devastating blow to momentum....the decimals. My momentum analysis was dramatically revised, I tested the strategies with my OWN money, and then wrote the curriculum and taught it when the market was closed.

3) The philosophies I used have evolved MANY times since 1995. Momentum primarily until '97, then a strong push on TA breakouts and breakdowns. '97 I taught and practiced ECN arb and fading (many strategies that still work today). '98 til '01 mostly TA (90%) with strong focus on failed B/Os and B/Ds and with momentum focus on buy and sell side axe behaviors with intraday candle OBV and VWAP. From '00 to '01 I developed the prop training program, and taught mostly prop traders (approx 300 traders) and select retail customers, with mostly momentum and fill analysis. DOMS and ATTN prop model was LTHV (low tolerance high velocity) prop trading guys were trading 10-100K shares of Nasdaq stocks priced anywhere from $0.75 to $2.00. TA was used for buy and sell progs only, with major focus on fill analysis. This is where my market maker experience came in. I also use as I have had since then, DJI and TYX relationships, this analysis shows high accuracy for anticipating post 3PM ET mkt reversals. By the way, I was in the PIT with them trading my MONEY, showing them that it did work.

4) My philosophies have changed dramatically since '95, and I have personally mentored traders individually since '01. When I arrived at Pristine, while understanding the "Pristine Method", which I found out is the same as Steve Nison's "Three Black Crow" strategy, I introduced VWAP and OBV analysis on the Intraday 1 & 5 min. I taugh this analysis not only during Pristine bootcamps and Real Time Room lectures (350 users logged in everyday), but also in online seminars and CD's which they are still selling today, after I have left.

The bottom line is: 1) My approaches are TOTALLY different from the ones I have taught 8 years ago. To survive and succeed, you must adapt, or be killed. It's always great for me to hear from traders who are STILL trading since '95. 2) I have survived and succeeded because I have adapted to the changing market, and have helped many traders do the same. I'd say 10K people from '95 to '00 and then 2k people from '00 till now. The numbers dropped because my primary focus from '01 on was trading my account and running Pristine's business.

Hope that answered your questions, feel free to send me a P/M or an email. Always nice to here from pre 3/31/00 traders (survivors). I'm not there, so pat yourself on the back for me, I'm proud of you!!! You should be too!! Be well!!

Jai,

Thanks for the lengthy reply. At the time I lived in the midwest and recall a guy named Don came to the office and did the "boot camps" ... his last name eludes me.

I agree 100% you have to change with the markets or you'll struggle.

Good luck ... I'm sure your posts are appreciated by a number of people here on ET.

RAMOUTAR · Jun 14, 2003

They're barely in the montage, but still around. They put out another SOESable ECN, "NOCI" has much lower prices and made up for thye MM's not paying ATTN. NOCI picked up where ATTN left off.

Quote from speedy:

I never even see ATTN in the montage anymore? And I was told that no was paying those outrages rates for hitting their ecn. Just like Mkxt. I'm surprised their still around.

sammybea · Jun 14, 2003

Ramouter.. I'll tell you what. Why don't you SIMPLY take the first 20 thousand dollars that a student nets.. Hell take 25k!! Since you are overqualfied (ie testifying in senate, working with harvey, teaching around the world, etc.), this should be no problem for you.

In fact, since you have to evaluate someone before they are "allowed" to send you a check for 20 thousand dollars for your time, you should have a good idea if they will succeed in paying you if they follow your strategies.

lol, the best gimmick i have heard is that you will trade your OWN money. Well, actually its not yours considering you have a 20k cushion from your victim.. oops i mean student. Nice try SlickRick.

marketsurfer · Jun 14, 2003

if jai offers a legitimate money back guarantee then there is nothing wrong with him charging whatever the market will accept for his training.

his marketing reminds me of tony robbin's pitch--- i'll help you change your life, but before i accept your money, i need to be certain that you want to change.

i wish you well in your endeavor, jai.

best,

surfer

maggandre · Jun 14, 2003

Quote from marketsurfer:

if jai offers a legitimate money back guarantee then there is nothing wrong with him charging whatever the market will accept for his training.

his marketing reminds me of tony robbin's pitch--- i'll help you change your life, but before i accept your money, i need to be certain that you want to change.

i wish you well in your endeavor, jai.

best,

surfer

But I only paid $149 for Tony Robbins' Personal Power course.

dgabriel · Jun 14, 2003

Quote from marketsurfer:

if jai offers a legitimate money back guarantee then there is nothing wrong with him charging whatever the market will accept for his training.

his marketing reminds me of tony robbin's pitch--- i'll help you change your life, but before i accept your money, i need to be certain that you want to change.

i wish you well in your endeavor, jai.

best,

surfer

This reminds me walking by a hardware store in East Hampton the summer that "Jaws" was released. The store owner was offering shark repellent for sale with a money back gaurantee.