This thread may soon be outdone by someone else who asks "Can I trade futures with $500 account?". And then people will say "YES!" because you could open an account with $500 margin" and daytrade ES with $400. So if you time market right on your first trade, that is the bare minimum.
2 k futures account - $500 a week possible?
- Thread starter sam hogar
- Start date
Whenever you're shooting for returns greater than annualized 25% over the risk free rate the higher is the likelihood you're undercapitalized. You're looking for a 1300% annualized return over the risk free rate. That should answer your question.
I have traded in contests against other acquaintances through the years for what I thought would be "fun" with 2k and less, let me tell you, it is NOT fun, highly stressing, have to make perfect entries every time till you double it. Can't have much of a drawdown and it messes up with your mind constantly, an hour of trading is like six hours. One sizeable loss of "them" running stops will wipe you out in Crude Oil. Concentrate on Mini Nas or Russell as they run better than ES, look to do 1-3 trades a day, when you hit $150 quit for the day. But you better be able to trade perfect, and more than one-two days that is impossible, at least for me. I wouldn't ever do again, needed a vacation afterwards, LOL.
Even though the OP has stuck his fingers in his ears and is loudly singing La La La, beginners and otherwise interested traders who come across this thread may learn something from Mark's posts -- this and the last -- and save themselves the potential damage to their accounts.
If the OP were as successful as he claims to be, there's no reason why he wouldn't have 25k to avoid the PDT. That he doesn't/didn't know what the PDT is suggests how new he is. That he doesn't know why it was instituted (and, no, it had nothing to do with market makers) confirms it.
Develop a thoroughly-tested and consistently-profitable trading plan, then work with a level of capital that isn't silly and avoid people who tell you only what you want to hear.
No, I don't use a 10 tick stop for CL. More like 50 to a 100 (i'm not a day trader).
However, I do think it is possible though to have 5 -10 pips stop and make money intraday.
As for other traders trying to take out your stops....well, of course, no one is going to move the market just to gun down your 1 contract order! However, if you put your stops at an obvious place where perhaps many others have put their stop, then there is more likelihood that others will gun for those stops.
It is possible to make literally hundreds of % from a small capital base. I recall building $3k from a $1k in a couple of months many, many years ago. The problem is that you have to bet big chunks of your capital and the odds of losing it all are therefore very high.
If you are ok with busting out your acct, probably quite a few times, and having to reload, you could make a substantial amount (forget about this constant £500 a week from £2k business - if you want that, go get a job). Very luck dependent though. I would buy options for max leverage, certainly not futures.
If you are ok with busting out your acct, probably quite a few times, and having to reload, you could make a substantial amount (forget about this constant £500 a week from £2k business - if you want that, go get a job). Very luck dependent though. I would buy options for max leverage, certainly not futures.
chances of catching 1 tick off the top or bottom, catching a turn, less than 1/20, scalping is extremely tough, must be quick to profit and to loss,few of many can do it, you may or may not possess that elusive talent...it's a little easier to avg 3 prices to catch a top, then catch the run down, but when wrong, triple the loss, this is where a smaller acct is at a disadvantage..there are a few traders who can and have shared the process...do your research
Alright yâall,
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com
fficeffice" /><o
> </o>
I traded futures my first day using a tested strategy that was successful on equities. I went long CLN14 on a proprietary signal of mine and netted 9.5 ticks, risking theoretically 7.5 gross. I came 3 ticks to getting stopped out; I feel that the market maker could make more money on a short squeeze and running stops going north before coming back down, so luck may have been on my side for this one.
<o> </o>
The time frame was between 8:15-8:21 central, sorry I donât want to give away my edge as it is simple, elegant and effective. I am sure those that have their own style understand. You donât want your ideas falling into the public domain where stop loss positions and entry signals can attract attention that may be detrimental.
<o> </o>
I couldnât find anything in ES, all though I am sure there was a million ways to get on board the opening range rally, none of them meet my rules. I might switch to YM for my personal style.
<o> </o>
So far so good, it looks like I will only have a small edge during the first few hours of the market open. Will probably only take 1 to 3 (max) trades a day if any. Given my account size, constant threat of negative expected value, extreme prejudice and discretion must be exercised just to survive let alone be profitable.
<o> </o>
I will keep posting if anyone wants to see how far I can go or how quick it takes to blow me up.
<o> </o>
Other wise, for those that are actual literate and have reasoning skills, thank you for participating and giving me your input as your experience has helped lighten my own path.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com
fficeffice" /><o> </o>I traded futures my first day using a tested strategy that was successful on equities. I went long CLN14 on a proprietary signal of mine and netted 9.5 ticks, risking theoretically 7.5 gross. I came 3 ticks to getting stopped out; I feel that the market maker could make more money on a short squeeze and running stops going north before coming back down, so luck may have been on my side for this one.
<o
> </o>The time frame was between 8:15-8:21 central, sorry I donât want to give away my edge as it is simple, elegant and effective. I am sure those that have their own style understand. You donât want your ideas falling into the public domain where stop loss positions and entry signals can attract attention that may be detrimental.
<o
> </o>I couldnât find anything in ES, all though I am sure there was a million ways to get on board the opening range rally, none of them meet my rules. I might switch to YM for my personal style.
<o
> </o>So far so good, it looks like I will only have a small edge during the first few hours of the market open. Will probably only take 1 to 3 (max) trades a day if any. Given my account size, constant threat of negative expected value, extreme prejudice and discretion must be exercised just to survive let alone be profitable.
<o
> </o>I will keep posting if anyone wants to see how far I can go or how quick it takes to blow me up.
<o
> </o>Other wise, for those that are actual literate and have reasoning skills, thank you for participating and giving me your input as your experience has helped lighten my own path.
You read my mind handle, your ideas seems the way to go. Not to be nosy but how did you do trading 2k? Besides the extreme stress were you able to earn a consistent return that may or not be worthwhile to someone you is highly stress adverse?
Where you able to double the account? If yes long did it take?
Thanks
<O
Yet I can day trade futures which are the epitome of maximum leverage and risk with a fraction of the capitalization.
Sam:
Three things:
The Futures exchanges are regulated by the CFTC, not the SEC\FINRA. Two different regulatory bodies. The Day Trader rule was put into effect during the "dot com" bubble to protect against truly ridiculous price swings. Futures were not traded by the public to any degree back then so there is no similar rule (yet).
In testing your system against a simulator you are not really being adequately exposed to the futures market's queue. In the futures market you almost always have only one exchange on which to buy and sell, not the multiple markets generally available to equities traders. Makes a huge difference in limit order execution.
If you haven't researched "performance bond" versus "margin" I suggest you do so. Look also at futures exchange established initial and overnight maintenance margins and their impact if you wanted to carry a position overnight.
Jack