2 k futures account - $500 a week possible?

fan27 · May 18, 2014

This is a very common thread topic. "Can I make X per week/month/etc on an account of size Y?" where X is an extremely large return value relative to Y. Trading is about assessing odds and risk. Sure, making $500 a week on a 2k account is theoretically possible. So is becoming president of the United States or forming a rock band that goes on to be as big as U2. What are the odds of that happening? There was another thread I saw where a poster asked if he could make 20% per year swing trading stocks. Certainly, that is a challenge to do consistently but that is much more reasonable objective.

fan27

failed_trad3r · May 18, 2014

sam hogar said:
I was never told about a NASD rule about pattern day trading. I had an account under 25,000 and was trading under the radar for a while. Once I got good I applied more trades and violated a rule I did not know existed (more than 4 trades in 3 days I believe), so my account was frozen for trading stocks.

The most hypocritical thing is that I did not use leverage or margin for stock trading yet they froze it because it was under 25k.

Funny how I can literally open 5 lots of ES or CL tomorrow on a 5k account leveraged to the gills and they allow that. What a joke. :'(

its probably written in one of the many forms you have to read beforehand opening an dollar brokerage account. if not then your broker made an error. I was well aware because I skimmed most of my forms.

sam hogar · May 18, 2014

fan27 said:
This is a very common thread topic. "Can I make X per week/month/etc on an account of size Y?" where X is an extremely large return value relative to Y. Trading is about assessing odds and risk. Sure, making $500 a week on a 2k account is theoretically possible. So is becoming president of the United States or forming a rock band that goes on to be as big as U2. What are the odds of that happening? There was another thread I saw where a poster asked if he could make 20% per year swing trading stocks. Certainly, that is a challenge to do consistently but that is much more reasonable objective.

fan27

I donât want to brag but I was doing great trading equities. I was earning a 3-4% return a week! 3 being the lowest and 4 being the highest. Again how much of this was luck and being in a bull market? I am quite certain a lot of the success was part of the major trend and high return on the broad average. Obviously I wouldnât come close to this in a bear market, I probably would lose everything, or even sustain this return in a bull market.
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My questions were to get the experience of futures day traders. Their opinions and what type of returns that they get.
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I wasnât saying can I make 1000 a day or such nonsense. I was even asking if 300 a week was possible to be realistic. 500 was the absolute high end.
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I was curious to see if the higher leverage would turn a 3% return in stocks into a 20-25% return in futures. Fair enough inquiry.
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A lot of cool posters have provided serious replys that have helped me so far. For that I thank them, elite, dom, ammo, and a ton more.

tiddlywinks · May 18, 2014

sam hogar said:
How old are you?

Why do so many of you have learning disabilities?

I could literally scream right now!

You really donât understand the point I was making!??! You really DO NOT UNDERSTAND!??!

That I was showing the utter hypocrisy of NASD rules where my account was frozen for trading stocks because I was considered undercapitalized and thus it was too risky for me to trade even though all my positions were fully capitalized and I did not use margin or leverage.

Yet I can day trade futures which are the epitome of maximum leverage and risk with a fraction of the capitalization.

Do you see the hypocrisy of not being allowed to day trade stocks even though I didnât use leverage because it was considered too risky for me? Yet I can day trade futures with a fraction of the capital and maximize leverage and maximize risk. I hope you see the hypocrisy.

Oh fyi, you are quoting a stoic Roman emperor on meritocracy whose book Meditations was about cyclical fatalism and fulfilling the roles that we were born into stoically. Quite the inverse of a philosophical disposition of an internal locus control where skills and achievement are earned. More of an external locus of control where position and aptitude are born into.

But hey I donât want to spoil your fun as you pretend to be a pseudo intellectual well versed in the classics of antiquity.

I'm 16. I live in a corner of my uncles basement. I dropped out of high school and never attended college, not even community. (DUH, I'm only 16).I consider myself lucky to have a computer to look up big words and famous sayings. Vocabulary and quotations can take a person far. I can also spell PDT, but I must admit I get it confused with some outlawed pesticide. Did you inhale some of that antiquity spray?

Troll On!

blakpacman · May 18, 2014

fan27 said:
This is a very common thread topic. "Can I make X per week/month/etc on an account of size Y?" where X is an extremely large return value relative to Y. Trading is about assessing odds and risk. Sure, making $500 a week on a 2k account is theoretically possible. So is becoming president of the United States or forming a rock band that goes on to be as big as U2. What are the odds of that happening? There was another thread I saw where a poster asked if he could make 20% per year swing trading stocks. Certainly, that is a challenge to do consistently but that is much more reasonable objective.fan27

Heck, Richie Dennis started with $1,600. He's one out of a hundred thousand futures traders.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Dennis

fan27 · May 18, 2014

blakpacman said:
Heck, Richie Dennis started with $1,600. He's one out of a hundred thousand futures traders.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Dennis

Yes indeed! He was trading at the right time, right place, right products and right method. Needless to say the stars were aligned in his favor.

"Dennis profited, as he bought successively new weekly and monthly highs in the trending inflationary markets of the 1970s, an era of repeated crop failures and the "Great Russian Grain Robbery" of 1972, when agents of the Soviet Union secretly purchased 30% of the U.S. wheat crop in the space of a few weeks. This set the stage for solid, sustained price trends in both directions for the next several years, a period in which "anyone with a simple trend-following method and a dart board could make a million dollars".[1][4]

In contrast to the vast majority of floor traders, who quickly scalped trades throughout a trading day, Dennis held positions for longer periodsâriding out short-term fluctuations and holding over the intermediate term. Dennis often pyramided his positions. In the late 1970s, he bought a full membership at the more expensive Chicago Board of Trade and opened an office upstairs in order to trade more markets."

fan27

xelite777 · May 18, 2014

sam hogar said:
The most hypocritical thing is that I did not use leverage or margin for stock trading yet they froze it because it was under 25k.

The 25K rule was put into place only to protect those greedy market makers (they said too many day traders were eating their lunch and making it harder for them to make money...).

The "official" reason they gave : "We have to protect the traders from losing their money day-trading"

What a joke indeed

sam hogar · May 18, 2014

xelite777 said:
The 25K rule was put into place only to protect those greedy market makers (they said too many day traders were eating their lunch and making it harder for them to make money...).

The "official" reason they gave : "We have to protect the traders from losing their money day-trading"

What a joke indeed

The old "it's for your own good and protection" line.

butterfacetrader · May 18, 2014

xelite777 said:
The 25K rule was put into place only to protect those greedy market makers (they said too many day traders were eating their lunch and making it harder for them to make money...).

The "official" reason they gave : "We have to protect the traders from losing their money day-trading"

What a joke indeed

Its not a joke. Its to protect people from themselves. Like a seatbelt.

Its actually the same reason why you need to be an accredited investor (200K individual income, 300K family income, or >1M liquid assets other than primary property) to invest with hedge funds.

The idea is that any money they lose messing around with a risky investment (hedge fund or day trading), is negligible compared to their total net worth, so as to not affect their well being and ability to live life when they lose it all.

volente_00 · May 18, 2014

95% chance you lose all $2000
4% chance you break even
1% chance you are net profitable