@Apophenia , I am also interested in daytrading the ES, but not with such a small account value as it makes life very difficult. What are you basing your ideal setup figures of 3 (2.9) to 1 (1.1) on? Can you give a very brief overview of how you daytrade the ES for a target of 1 point gain?
1ES Point / Day (Average)
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Agree. It's not always pleasant to trade from such a small account as it adds technical constraints (No Overnight Holding, Tiny Stops, No Scaling...) and psychological pressures (5% Risk per Point)... But its a great experience anyway. Glad to know you at ease - well capitalized - for a smooth beginning. My 3 to 1 setup, which is 3Rewards for 1Risk, is based on two things: 1. Risk Management 2. Experience. Risk Management cause I can't allow myself to lose more than a point. Experience because my "signals" usually deliver, at least, this kind of setup. 2.9 is 3Pts profit - Coms & 1.1 is 1Pt loss - Coms. 1Pt Gain per day is an average. What I am looking for (before anything else) is one good trade per day (Plan based). The market isn't an ATM therefore I can't just ask for 1Pt then get it. To scalp the market for ticks is tough because 1 tick loss (Net) = 2 ticks profit (Net). If you trade a setup long enough and keep the outcomes then you can compute your P(Gain), Ratio, Advantage... These things are dynamic of course. I myself buy dips and sell rallies ... Don't really go with the trend. Even if counter trend I expect a retracement at worst ... So I can close my position for a loss less than, or equal to 1Pt. That's the biggest issue actually... If it doesn't retrace then I lose big because my SL isn't a hard one standing up since inception. 1Pt is quickly taken out (Especially Stop Market). Think about your risk 1st. Which ways, how much you could lose and what it means for you to be wrong. Establish a Plan that suits you. When to enter, How much, When to exit. Emphasis added on WHEN and not WHERE since the former is done on APPRAISAL whereas the later is based on EXPECTATIONS. Are you really new in this endeavor ? Wish you the best.
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It suddenly dawned on me, the whole point of this thread...Making 1 point per day on ES.
That got me to thinking...
1 point on the ES is 4 tics. That's 50 bux. As the OP has pointed out, "AMP offer intraday margin as low as 400$ for the ES."
The OP started with $600. So you are trading one contract then, because you don't have enough capital to trade 2 contracts. You'd need $800 to do that.
If your goal is 50 bux per day, how much are you risking per day? If your stop of 16 tics is hit, you are at $400 capital. The next day, if you enter one contract...The moment your open position drops 1 tic, your account value is $387.50. (Extrapolate from there how bad of an idea this is). At that point you could be subjected to an intraday margin call, where they liquidate you. So you are now down to $387.50. Now you cannot even enter a new 1 contract position. You're dead in the water.
Why are you trying to trade right on the fringe of what is conceivably possible?
Trading 1 contract in ES with $600 does not make sense. It is what I would call the very definition of "undercapitalized". Am I missing something here?
Now, on the other hand, you could try funding your account with something like 5K, and just enter one contract on CL. Most places have 1K daytrading margin for it, and in order to make 50 bux, all you need is 5 tics. So you can earn your 50 bux from CL which has MUCH BETTER PRICE action than ES. Risk on CL is possibly better than ES. 16-tic stop on ES is $200 bux, 20-tic stop on CL is 200 bux.
Or you could fund your ES account with 5K and have a much larger buffer for losses, and stop trying to be a hero to yourself. It's not a game, it's not for ego. It's a business...It is for income.
That got me to thinking...
1 point on the ES is 4 tics. That's 50 bux. As the OP has pointed out, "AMP offer intraday margin as low as 400$ for the ES."
The OP started with $600. So you are trading one contract then, because you don't have enough capital to trade 2 contracts. You'd need $800 to do that.
If your goal is 50 bux per day, how much are you risking per day? If your stop of 16 tics is hit, you are at $400 capital. The next day, if you enter one contract...The moment your open position drops 1 tic, your account value is $387.50. (Extrapolate from there how bad of an idea this is). At that point you could be subjected to an intraday margin call, where they liquidate you. So you are now down to $387.50. Now you cannot even enter a new 1 contract position. You're dead in the water.
Why are you trying to trade right on the fringe of what is conceivably possible?
Trading 1 contract in ES with $600 does not make sense. It is what I would call the very definition of "undercapitalized". Am I missing something here?
Now, on the other hand, you could try funding your account with something like 5K, and just enter one contract on CL. Most places have 1K daytrading margin for it, and in order to make 50 bux, all you need is 5 tics. So you can earn your 50 bux from CL which has MUCH BETTER PRICE action than ES. Risk on CL is possibly better than ES. 16-tic stop on ES is $200 bux, 20-tic stop on CL is 200 bux.
Or you could fund your ES account with 5K and have a much larger buffer for losses, and stop trying to be a hero to yourself. It's not a game, it's not for ego. It's a business...It is for income.
@Apophenia , I find it hard to follow some of what you said, but here is my reply anyway in no particular order.
- Risk management is controlling how much you lose on each trade, and should not be based on $ amount as the market does not really know how much you have to risk?
- Experience is acquiring knowledge from doing things, and can thus be good or bad depending on what we do?
- A trend is when price is moving in the same direction for a certain period of time, and therefore the time period we decide to trade is of the utmost importance in relation to trading with the trend?
- A retracement is when price reverses the trend direction for a certain distance, and then resumes its original trend direction. The distance traveled by the price reversal can not exceed 50% of the distance from the previous swing points of the current trend, otherwise the retracement might be considered a reversal?
- When is time based and Where is price based, so should not the APPRAISAL (formal assessment) and EXPECTATIONS (believe something will happen) be reversed?
I've already tried for an entire month. Do not suits me at all. But thx for the suggestion.
Indeed 2 contracts require 800$ from my broker point of view. However from mine it's 2K per contract (2K Margin).
My goal is 1Pt per day in average. Not 50$ cause if I have 2k capital it's 100$ (2K Margin). Setup is 3Pts TP (Average) for 1Pt SL (Average). Yes there is a significant probability of not being able to enter a new 1 contract position.
I am broke.
I concur.
No I can't fund my account with more than what I have. I am ALL IN (900$). I don't know CL and I am happy with ES.
Not trying to be a hero. Just trying to make it with what I have. Anyway ... I'll certainly blow up and in this case I'll turn into a thai monk. Currently I give it a try.
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@wtfauoa
1. Risk management is effectively controling your downside on each trade but also over the long run. Rule #1 of risk management is to avoid ruin. So your MAX(Loss) has to be denominated in percent then translated in dollars then in ticks according to the tick value and applied leverage.
2. I'd say knowledge is fed by experiments =P But I tried to make a distinction between process and outcome. In a fuzzy and probabilistic world, bad (good) processes can generate good (bad) outcomes. What's great is following your plan (Good Process) whatever the outcome (Which over the long run should yield its fruits).
3. I don't know ...
4. A retracement can exceed 50% of the distance from the previous swing low to high.
5. When is time based and Where is price based. True. I link APPRAISAL (formal assessment) with time because that's how the price unfold ... Through time (Organic). I link EXPECTATIONS (believe something will happen) with price because we expect the price to do such and such from there (Synthetic).
Okay =D So I wish you not to make money day in day out. But to find a profitable system over time and to avoid breaking your rules. All the best.
Actually I've seen you're a registered member since 2009. When I actually got interested with trading in 2012. I should be the one asking questions
1. Risk management is effectively controling your downside on each trade but also over the long run. Rule #1 of risk management is to avoid ruin. So your MAX(Loss) has to be denominated in percent then translated in dollars then in ticks according to the tick value and applied leverage.
2. I'd say knowledge is fed by experiments =P But I tried to make a distinction between process and outcome. In a fuzzy and probabilistic world, bad (good) processes can generate good (bad) outcomes. What's great is following your plan (Good Process) whatever the outcome (Which over the long run should yield its fruits).
3. I don't know ...
4. A retracement can exceed 50% of the distance from the previous swing low to high.
5. When is time based and Where is price based. True. I link APPRAISAL (formal assessment) with time because that's how the price unfold ... Through time (Organic). I link EXPECTATIONS (believe something will happen) with price because we expect the price to do such and such from there (Synthetic).
Okay =D So I wish you not to make money day in day out. But to find a profitable system over time and to avoid breaking your rules. All the best.
Actually I've seen you're a registered member since 2009. When I actually got interested with trading in 2012. I should be the one asking questions
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