15% unemployment 2010?

[Scataphagos]

Quote from hayman:

You are right, the current state is not Obama's fault, and is directly correlated to Bush's administration. However, Bush i off collecting his lofty pension, and the microscope is on Obama. He must produce now, or he'll be hung out to dry on this problem. Raising taxes at the corporate level is certainly not the answer. Collecting a "fair share" of taxes on the rich (not higher taxes, just fair taxes), needs to be a priority. Also, many loopholes need to be closed.....e.g., having Goldman Sachs only paying at a marginal tax rate of 1 % is CRIMINAL. The only way this ship turns around, is if people are put back to work. Everything is driven off employment.

Agree with most of your points... sure, loopholes should be closed... but how is "1% of taxpayers paying 40% of income tax", 10% of taxpayers paying 70% of income tax", and "50% of taxpayers paying 97% of income tax"... not taxing them enough?

Can we not see the threat to America's way of life to have the biggest voting block, the biggest constituency, "people who don't pay Federal Income Tax"?

In America, it has been the desire of most to at some point, "become rich". What's the incentive to make the effort if the government is going to tax it all away?

And BTW... without the rich, there would be nothing to "redistribute" or to tax unfairly.

The progressive income tax is immoral!

 

[Scataphagos]

Quote from hayman:

"... The only way this ship turns around, is if people are put back to work. Everything is driven off employment.

Right. And Obama's policies are ANTI-EMPLOYMENT, ANTI-BUSINESS, ANTI-CAPITAL, ANTI-GROWTH ... except for the government...

 

[noob_trad3r]

It seems this became a political thread. But maybe the problem is 70% of the US GDP is consuming stuff with only 20% of our GDP is producing stuff?

How do we change that?

 

[Scataphagos]

Quote from noob_trad3r:

It seems this became a political thread. But maybe the problem is 70% of the US GDP is consuming stuff with only 20% of our GDP is producing stuff?

How do we change that?

I don't know where you get the notion of "20% GDP producing"... I don't even understand what that means.

Not exactly accurate, but in general...

Consider...
1. Consumers earn 100% of all income.
2. Citizens pay 30% of their income to government. Therefore, Consumers spend 70% of all income.
3. Government spends the 30% that citizens/consumers paid in taxes.
4. Consumer spending is "elastic".... that is, if they make less they spend less.
5. Government spending COULD be elastic but is not... they ALWAYS spend more... because they can "get away with it" and CHARGE THE DEFICIT TO TAXPAYERS.

 

[clacy]

Quote from Scataphagos:

Right. And Obama's policies are ANTI-EMPLOYMENT, ANTI-BUSINESS, ANTI-CAPITAL, ANTI-GROWTH ... except for the government...

Exactly. I will agree that Bush, Bernake, Greenspan and just the business cycle are all to blame for where we're at but you certainly have to include the Dems and their love affair with providing home loans for people that cannot afford to own a home.

That has a lot to do with where we are as well and for that, Obama and his ilk must shoulder some of the blame.

That, along with radical overspending at virtually all levels of government, by both parties have us in this quandry.

The problem going forward, is that Obama's solution is to raise taxes, spend more money, cap & trade, and universal healthcare.

All of these things are a negative for our long-term economy, in my opinion.

 

[Scataphagos]

Quote from clacy:

"... The problem going forward, is that Obama's solution is to raise taxes, spend more money, cap & trade, and universal healthcare.

All of these things are a negative for our long-term economy, in my opinion.

Most don't realize it, but Obama's polices are the equivalent of "kicking us in the balls while we're down on the ground".

But Obama doesn't really care about America and our people. He cares that HE IS THE BIG CHEESE...SETTING POLICY, WIELDING POWER & EXERCISING CONTROL... AND THAT CHILDREN SING HIS PRAISES...

Remind you of others in history??

 

[noob_trad3r]

Quote from Scataphagos:

I don't know where you get the notion of "20% GDP producing"... I don't even understand what that means.

Not exactly accurate, but in general...

Consider...
1. Consumers earn 100% of all income.
2. Citizens pay 30% of their income to government. Therefore, Consumers spend 70% of all income.
3. Government spends the 30% that citizens/consumers paid in taxes.
4. Consumer spending is "elastic".... that is, if they make less they spend less.
5. Government spending COULD be elastic but is not... they ALWAYS spend more... because they can "get away with it" and CHARGE THE DEFICIT TO TAXPAYERS.

All the news reports say 70% of our GDP is consumption of goods and services. So I would have to assume the leftover (30% must be output?)

or is the other remaining percentage something else other than output.

 

[Scataphagos]

Quote from noob_trad3r:

All the news reports say 70% of our GDP is consumption of goods and services. So I would have to assume the leftover (30% must be output?)

or is the other remaining percentage something else other than output.

No. "What is bought" in the USA is 70% by consumers, 30% by government... and the government's 30%, came from taxes paid by consumers. But I don't know that conventional number is true any more. The "sum of Federal, State, and Local government" is now running 45% of the economy, according to some.

 

[Scataphagos]

Quote from noob_trad3r:

All the news reports say 70% of our GDP is consumption of goods and services. So I would have to assume the leftover (30% must be output?)

or is the other remaining percentage something else other than output.

GDP is basically, "The sum of all goods and services measured at the final, retail price" produced in the US economy.... this contains a SIGNIFICANT inflation component... which is always "officially fudged" by the government... so it's hard to know what is "real" and what is just "nominal, including unknown inflation component".

There are nebulous parts...

1. USA companies, but produced overseas?
2. USA production, but sold overseas?
3. Foreign production, bought in USA by both consumers and government?

 

[DHOHHI]

Quote from Scataphagos:

But Obama doesn't really care about America and our people. He cares that HE IS THE BIG CHEESE...SETTING POLICY, WIELDING POWER & EXERCISING CONTROL... AND THAT CHILDREN SING HIS PRAISES...

Not sure what your repeated rant about "children sing his praises". I assume perhaps you're referring to his talk to school kids. That speech was very impressive IMO.

I'm lucky to make enough $$ trading that I have time to volunteer at schools. I work with kids in an inner city school where 98.6% live BELOW the poverty level. These kids did NOT ask to be born into a life of poverty, under performing schools and crime ridden neighborhoods. Without tutoring, guidance and positive role models they'll fall into the same lifestyle as their parents -- and many typically only have one adult in their lives.

If you want more and more kids turning into adults with no marketable skills, no hope for a future then we should not reinforce the benefits of education. And the end result with be more crime, a bigger increase in illiteracy and more desperation from those who have nothing. And they'll continue to have kids of their own. The future gets much worse if we don't focus a LOT on education.