1256 Contracts: Schedule D vs Schedule C

A

Aisone

(Preface, I realize I do need an accountant in the future , but it's late and am trying to squeeze by this year on my own without doing too much damage.)

Is it correct that sole-prop earnings (475 election) from solely trading 1256 contracts (ES futures only) gets stated on Schedule D using the 60%/40% longterm/shorterm rule, and that no earnings are included on the schedule C as ordinary income, just business expenses?

I also understand I need to use form 4797 and form 6781.
 
Aisone said:
(Preface, I realize I do need an accountant in the future , but it's late and am trying to squeeze by this year on my own without doing too much damage.)

Is it correct that sole-prop earnings (475 election) from solely trading 1256 contracts (ES futures only) gets stated on Schedule D using the 60%/40% longterm/shorterm rule, and that no earnings are included on the schedule C as ordinary income, just business expenses?

I also understand I need to use form 4797 and form 6781.
More...

It is simpler than that.

Your losses and gains on 1256 contracts will be reported on your capital gain/loss income forms, at that rate. Your business expenses have to be reported on a separate form, where you can claim business deductions. The 1040 Schedule C form I think it is called

By the way, way to go on taking this down to the wire, in that you have one calendar week to file this shit without penalty

Way to procrastinate!
 
Aisone said:
(Preface, I realize I do need an accountant in the future , but it's late and am trying to squeeze by this year on my own without doing too much damage.)

Is it correct that sole-prop earnings (475 election) from solely trading 1256 contracts (ES futures only) gets stated on Schedule D using the 60%/40% longterm/shorterm rule, and that no earnings are included on the schedule C as ordinary income, just business expenses?

I also understand I need to use form 4797 and form 6781.
More...
Get yourself TurboTax. Before long, you'll ask yourself why you haven't done this sooner. Seriously, it'll save you a ton of time (and money). Most CPAs don't know crap about trading, let alone 1256. But it's fairly straightforward in TurboTax.

BTW don't get HRBlock. TurboTax is much better.
 
Overnight said:
It is simpler than that.

Your losses and gains on 1256 contracts will be reported on your capital gain/loss income forms, at that rate. Your business expenses have to be reported on a separate form, where you can claim business deductions. The 1040 Schedule C form I think it is called

By the way, way to go on taking this down to the wire, in that you have one calendar week to file this shit without penalty

Way to procrastinate!
More...
Thanks for the answer. That makes it easy. Just to clarify, when you say it's 'simpler than that', does that mean I don't need either of the 4797 or 6781 also?

Yeah, this year has been a year like that, not my preference tbh (but am not going to say I've never been late to this party before either.)
 
schizo said:
Get yourself TurboTax. Before long, you'll ask yourself why you haven't done this sooner. Seriously, it'll save you a ton of time (and money). Most CPAs don't know crap about trading, let alone 1256. But it's fairly straightforward in TurboTax.

BTW don't get HRBlock. TurboTax is much better.
More...
That's been my experience with a few non-specialized cpa's as well, but I also assumed tax software wasn't going to account for 475 election and all the sole-prop trader nuances etc.
 
Aisone said:
(Preface, I realize I do need an accountant in the future , but it's late and am trying to squeeze by this year on my own without doing too much damage.)

Is it correct that sole-prop earnings (475 election) from solely trading 1256 contracts (ES futures only) gets stated on Schedule D using the 60%/40% longterm/shorterm rule, and that no earnings are included on the schedule C as ordinary income, just business expenses?

I also understand I need to use form 4797 and form 6781.
More...
Why not just file an extension, giving you until mid-October to file completed tax forms?

You need to pay the tax now, with the extension, or be subject to penalties. However, the extension is automatic, and no need to proffer a reason. The Federal IRS extension is honored by individual states as well.
 
Tax law is increasingly complex, with new rules regularly introduced by bureaucrats out of nowhere. When I have researched some arcane corners of it for my own purposes, I then went down to the local IRS office to confirm my findings. Unfortunately, in some cases I knew more than they did, they did not have enough specialized knowledge on that particular topic! One of my sisters is a CPA and an MBA, and yet she would not have the specialized info you need, without some research.

I have been in futures now for 14 years. For just a regular taxpayer like me, the Form 6781 is incredibly easy, as is the Schedule D, IF all you trade is futures. Together they take only a few minutes. Just one reason I no longer trade stocks, options, and ETF, except in my Roth, where taxes are basically irrelevant, thankfully. But in your case, with sole-prop earnings (475 election) I could not give you a definitive answer.

I suggest either an urgent consult with a true expert in these matters, or filing an extension until you absolutely KNOW the necessary tax law details. Taking the risk is just not worth it. The firm that comes to mind immediately has a nice reputation for extensive detailed knowledge of tax law for traders, including futures:

https://greentradertax.com
 
If your trading futures you simply put the net gain or loss on Form 6781 with the name of broker. If you have multiple then separate gains and losses. That's all you need to do for futures trading. Not sure Schedule C reference. How is that related? Are you not employed and just trade for a living? If so, there are check boxes you need to check to make sure you can be considered a professional trader (I think mostly based on if you have a separate income).
 
Actuarial_Fun said:
If your trading futures you simply put the net gain or loss on Form 6781 with the name of broker. If you have multiple then separate gains and losses. That's all you need to do for futures trading. Not sure Schedule C reference. How is that related? Are you not employed and just trade for a living? If so, there are check boxes you need to check to make sure you can be considered a professional trader (I think mostly based on if you have a separate income).
More...

schedule c is how you deduct your operating losses (like market data -
And research expense). I think there are circumstances where your interest expense and some trading activities go on schedule C (like FX cash trades)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top