10:1 could be the new leverage rule

Quote from asiaprop:

you seem to be on a huge losing streak otherwise there is no explanation in this world you react so agitated. So, in an ironic sense you are absolutely right, you cant prevent idiots from losing money no matter how low you set the leverage. But listening to your argument and opinions you pull out of your arse about me without knowing a thing you clearly show that you are for sure not one of the smarter ones. And dumb people also lose money over time, not just idiots...

Enough said, come back with valid arguments about leverage and why you need it (unless, as we currently understand you trade your sub 10k account and want to take it to 2,000,000 by year end) and then I am happy to respond otherwise consider this the end of our conversation!

You're a jack-ass who doesn't trade. I know.

Anytime you wanna man-up and post some live calls, by all means, I'll blow you out of the water.

This is the 3rd time you've dodged my direct challenge to post your occupation. You don't trade. But consider yourself abreast enough to comment on a field you're personally ignorant about.

Leverage does not make trading hard. Trading is hard because trading is hard (to figure out).

If you traded, you would know that.
 
you seem to be full of anger why dont you let others make choices in their life and just let it be? No reason to look down on them. That you cannot channel your anger or frustration (wherever its coming from) shows you lack proper hobbies or a satisfying job.

What you fail to see is that high leverage is not good for ANYONE, not for the brightest and smartest, not for the dumbest ones. The only entities its good for is brokers. Thus, I hope they are gonna be forced to close doors soon.

Quote from achilles28:

Those losers are gambler types who refuse to spend 2 minutes educating themselves on the basics of anything. They just want to close their eyes and roll the dice. End of story.

You can find them anywhere in life. They're the morbidly obese fucks stuffing themselves at McDonalds. The degenerate losers pumping endless twenties into an electronic slot machine. Rummies living off quarters in the park so they buy another 60 of vodka.

Shit happens, man. If you understood how easy it is to risk >1% of account value until a person can churn consistent profits, you wouldn't be so eager to protect the WILLFULLY stupid.
 
a) agree leverage does not itself determine whether you walk home with winnings or losses in the end of the month
b) i dont even know you and dont remember whom you challenged and why you have a need to do that
c) I am trading mostly options on equities, index, fx. Anything else is none of your business, I dont remember I asked you to be my friend...so, take it easy
d) you sound like someone whose account gets churned and raped every day by your broker, overtrading, over leveraging, and revenge trading. I recommend you take a break, take a deep breath and come back to the table...;-)


Quote from achilles28:

You're a jack-ass who doesn't trade. I know.

Anytime you wanna man-up and post some live calls, by all means, I'll blow you out of the water.

This is the 3rd time you've dodged my direct challenge to post your occupation. You don't trade. But consider yourself abreast enough to comment on a field you're personally ignorant about.

Leverage does not make trading hard. Trading is hard because trading is hard (to figure out).

If you traded, you would know that.
 
guys, I am out of here, just wanted to also add another side of the coin, a differing opinion.

That most are opposing limits on leverage I fully understand, though I dont think its fruitful to even attempt trading by leveraging up on positions. Fortunes can be made (and lost) with leverage < 20:1, even 10:1

Good luck all
 
Quote from asiaprop:

last comment (had to add that), you seem to be full of anger why dont you let others make choices in their life and just let it be? No reason to look down on them. That you cannot channel your anger or frustration (wherever its coming from) shows you lack proper hobbies or a satisfying job.

What you fail to see is that high leverage is not good for ANYONE, not for the brightest and smartest, not for the dumbest ones. The only entities its good for is brokers. Thus, I hope they are gonna be forced to close doors soon.

Peer deep into those tea leaves, eh?? :D

You're a poser who doesn't trade. We've established that.

High leverage is not good for anyone??? BULLSHIT.

98% of traders fail. The other 2% of winners benefit from high leverage.

Finally, thanks for proving my point:

Quote from asiaprop:

why dont you let others make choices in their life and just let it be?

If Joe Blow loser wants 400:1 leverage and their broker stands ready to give it them, WHO ARE YOU to intervene?

After all, should we not "let others make choices in their life and just let it be?"

Don't be a hypocrite. Please shut the fuck up now. Checkmate.
 
Quote from asiaprop:

a) agree leverage does not itself determine whether you walk home with winnings or losses in the end of the month
b) i dont even know you and dont remember whom you challenged and why you have a need to do that
c) I am trading mostly options on equities, index, fx. Anything else is none of your business, I dont remember I asked you to be my friend...so, take it easy
d) you sound like someone whose account gets churned and raped every day by your broker, overtrading, over leveraging, and revenge trading. I recommend you take a break, take a deep breath and come back to the table...;-)

I never asked to be friends. Trust me.

You don't trade. We know.

Lastly, I could wipe the floor with you, any day of the week. Trust me on that.

Why not take some of your own advice, and let others make their choices and leave them alone?

Or does that apply to everything but leverage?

Don't be a Jack-ass.
 
Quote from asiaprop:

guys, I am out of here, just wanted to also add another side of the coin, a differing opinion.

That most are opposing limits on leverage I fully understand, though I dont think its fruitful to even attempt trading by leveraging up on positions. Fortunes can be made (and lost) with leverage < 20:1, even 10:1

Good luck all

That's great. Then trade that way.

Just don't force your rules on everyone else.

You wouldn't like it if I forced you to trade at 100:1? So why force me to trade at 10:1?

That mentality ("do what I think is 'right'") is just as obtuse and perverse.

At 100:1 or 1:1, 99% of traders will still lose. Just slower.

Please think this through.
 
Quote from andy9775:

Explain to me this,

There are two traders both with $10,000 accounts
trader a is leveraged at 100:1 and trader b is at 200:1. Both traders
target 100pips and both limit there risk to 2% total account size.
Trader a buys 1 lot with a 20 pip stop loss trader b buys 1 lot with a
10 pip stop loss. The position goes against both and they are stopped
out. Trader a at 100:1 with 1 lot lost 20 pips at $10 per pip gives
him $200 of his total account. Trader b leveraged at 200:1 with 1 lot
lost 10 pips at $20 per pip gives him $200 of his total account. Both
traders are thus able to suffer 50 losses prior to there accounts
being at 0. For arguments sake lets assume that the spread is included in the SL to account for the overall risk.

How is the trader with more leverage risking more? Also please do not try to ignor the question by saying that no one trades with 10 and 20 pip stop losses as this can be extended to .10 lots and 100 and 200 stop loss levels. I would also like to make note that when the financial crises hit many people who were invested in the safe stock market lost more then 2% of there accounts, mind you they weren't leveraged at all but they didnt understand the risk. That is why 95% of traders fail, they believe that they can open a position and use no or a very wide stop loss and when it gets hit there accounts are down 25% and they complain. I did the same thing, luckily I didnt blow my account and broke even, then went to demo some more.

Thanks, Andy. Send this (as well) to the CFTC as a reminder to them that knee-jerk reactionary solutions to the problem, is no real solution at all. Very well put and good job!
 
Quote from asiaprop:

all your screaming does not help, tell me trading 50:1 or 100:1 is not taking completely outsized risk. The point is, anyone trading money on such basis DOES NOT understand risk nor should be trading because he/she is not only risking his own money but on a larger scale also adding to aggregate risk in the market as a whole.

You don't have a clue, do you?

It is NOT the leverage that's the problem insomuch as it is the lack of skill and knowledge on how to make the leverage work FOR you instead of AGAINST you.

The simple fact that you don't yet understand this incredibly fundamental concept, is proof positive that the only PayPal Paper Trader around here, is YOU.

I bet that you are one of those same so-called "Traders," who rail against the idea that having two opposing open position of equal size and timing, is not considered real hedging, and that both positions have no "real purpose" but to cancel each other out? I bet that is your mentality, as well, no doubt.

200:1, 100:, 50:1, whatever, whenever. The problem is a lack of education on HOW these markets work. If you are a true equity derivatives trader, then you should already know that good trade strategy coupled to good money management strategy can trump 50% trade accuracy - and - 50% probability is plain vanilla risk, upon entry into most all financially traded markets. So, it is your education that raises your trading accuracy with respect to striking your Limit Order BEFORE the market strikes your Stop Order. What you truly understand about how the market (read: your pair) works, is what move your trading accuracy above the 50% probability range and into the high percentiles where real traders live out their trading lives.

Big, just posted the perfect example of two traders using two different leverage levels, yet turning out the exact same failure rate. Mathematically, your harping on Leverage as being the problem for trader's failing, is illogical and irrational and it paints you as a total neophyte to this business.

Now, grow up (in this business) and learn what you need to become consistently successful and stop acting as clueless as the bureaucrats who will ruin just about anything they can get their hands on. If the YOU and the CFTC were seriously concerned about Consumer Protection as it relates to Currency Traders (what a joke that concept truly turns out to be), then both YOU and the CFTC would be trying to build a comprehensive strategy for increasing the overall education of each Currency Trader in the market place. That, above all else, would make more traders more successful and it would do wonders to lower the so-called 95% failure rate.

Mathematically, you can lose far more than you win and STILL walk away from this business a Millionaire at least over a period of just a few years but ONLY if you learn what Money Management looks like AND how to properly structure your trades (positions) such that when a failure does happen, even at 200:1 or 100:1, you don't get wiped out. THAT comes from EDUCATION and NOT from artificially reducing leverage.

Without proper education, you can mandate the leverage down to 10:1 and the trader will STILL lose everything IF they don't understand proper Money Management AND proper Trade Set-up (configuration).

So, go sell silly somewhere else - I'm all stocked up here. Leverage is not the target. Education, is the target.
 
Back
Top