10,000 ROI possible?

[HATEtheRisk]

Quote from Lucias:

The returns possible are indeed high...

10k with 100% return per year over 10 years will produce
10,240,000.00

I have a single system that can do that, doesnt trade very much. The key is you need a mechanism to take profits out in case it completely fails. This will reduce return but still could produce say 2-3 million.

For best traders returns 30% to 300% is best case... I have systems that can do 5x returns but only by trading on a higher frequency.. The problem with such system is that it is difficult to verify because the avg profits are so small. Currently I'm running experiments to attempt to verify..

The difficult part for discretionary trader is you need at least 5 years before the returns start to really grow.. you start with 10k and do 100% per year in 3 years you're only up 80k.. I think the systems may have a benefit in executing over the long run.

Making a lot of points is not required.. wrong way to think about it. if you can average just $100/day on a 5k account (2 points) then that's a 5x return

I tell you and old saying " the first million is always the hardest, after that it comes easy ".

Thats the truth. If you can make one, you can make 10 and so on.
But there is a limit, if you really want to become huge, you must become instituional, means do private banking as high net worth individual, start at 5M$ or the other way is to found a company.

But as a retailer, there is a limit, also if you trade with 20 good brokers and steal from each one 3 million dollar over a duration of 2 years, lets say, you would have made 60 million dollars, that is possible as a retailer, but only if you have many brokers.

But the question is, if it is really worth all the hard work for the money, because it is hard work my friend, nothing comes easy.

What know looks cool and easy for you, will stress your nerves in a few years and you be happy then for all the money you have.

Trading is a very stressfull job.

 

[nwose]

Quote from AK100:

Just out of interest, why would you want a billion+ $ and why would you need that much cash?

And please, try to be a little bit more original than saying 'jet, 2 boats, 6 houses and 20 cars'. That lifestyle isn't really anything to be envious about, or that enojoyable, but of course that's not what the marketers/tv wants you to think.

Thats a good question. 2 billion wasnt a target, it just ended up being that way as a result of the system. You have to aim for a certain amount to keep a proper R/R ratio, you kow?

Id be happy with 1 point per day and thats it. In reality it doesnt work like that. You have to determine the minimum stop allowed for the instrument being trading, then work backwards.

 

[nwose]

Also being an institutional trader doesnt mean anything. If i had the money i could very well trade 400 contracts and the system wont know if its me making that trade or a big guy. Any given time even in pm trading you can trade 400 contracts with maximum 3 ticks slippage. The little guy can slip buy and ride along with the institutional traders, while there battling it out, im exiting with my measly 400 contracts going unnoticed.

 

[ronblack]

Quote from nwose:

What is the maximum return on investment that you know of?

I only know about returns coupled with risks. Returns with no risk, no possible.

If you take risks to make returns you will be subject to drawdown. You can lose it all before you reach your target for retirement.

 

[TheGoonior]

It's all well and good to shoot for the moon, but you'd probably do better with reasonable expectations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMART_criteria

Right now, you are basically saying: "I am getting pretty good at the batting cage, so in 5 years, I'm going to be Derek Jeter"

 

[nwose]

Quote from wiesman02:

First of all OP, its quite pathetic that you have to delute ET with these ridiculous joke threads. No retail trader will make 2 billion, let alone 50 million. Nor will you ever trade 400 contracts in the ES. Its just too much size, even with an account in the millions.
I'm sure there's a few traders trading that size, but they are far and few btwn

ALSO:

1600 points / year averages out to 30 points per week. I think averaging 30 points per week is COMPLETELY unreasonable on a week by week average.

When I became profitable trading the ES, I was making 10 points / week. As I became more efficient, increased my size, scaled out, and caught larger moves, that number increased slightly. But 30 points / week ? No way.

Remember: 10 points / week x 4 contracts = $100k / yr not including commisions

Sorry you feel it is a joke.. but let me ask you this, when you were only making 10 points a day how in the hell did you manage risk? Using 1 tick stops?

Lets take today for example..my signals would have made me 11 points, a short at 1314.25, then reverese and go long at 1307.25 exit at 1312.00. Instead of weekly goal, i have a monthly goal. If im up 130 points, i stop unless i see a super good signal. There are different variations within the signal that determine what the win rate might be. Im aiming for a 35% success rate.

When you were aiming for 10 points a week, little more than a point a day, where did you place your stops?

 

[Lucias]

400 cars isn't as much as it sounds.. I could see it on a loaded trade.. if I had 2 million risk capital.. I'd probably trade up to 150-170 cars... could see doing 400 cars with only 6 million

Billion is unrealistic agree and # points is unrealistic agree.. but 1 million - 15 million is return is certainly achievable.

 

[nwose]

Quote from ronblack:

I only know about returns coupled with risks. Returns with no risk, no possible.

If you take risks to make returns you will be subject to drawdown. You can lose it all before you reach your target for retirement.

Exactly, That was the main problem at first, i never pictured losing...if so why would i even try in the first place?

I know this is not easy, infact its the hardest thing ive ever tried. Went through 4 accounts in 1 year and lost 30k, all my savings. The mental stress alone was almost worse than losing the actual money. I would sleep next to the computer and keep my platform open at all times, it was making me crazy. One night my platform expierenced a glitch to where my 4,000 dollar account showed -800 balance when it hit midnight. Didnt find out it was a glitch until 2 hours later, thought i had done something wrong. Probably took about 5 years off my life.

Without having the 30k to "learn" i would have never been able to even come up with a plan and find signals that actually work.

Quote from Lucias:

400 cars isn't as much as it sounds.. I could see it on a loaded trade.. if I had 2 million risk capital.. I'd probably trade up to 150-170 cars... could see doing 400 cars with only 6 million

Billion is unrealistic agree and # points is unrealistic agree.. but 1 million - 15 million is return is certainly achievable.

2 million?? everyone has comfort level as far as how much of a buffer to leave. One thing ive always been confused about is why brokers allow 500 margin if nobody uses them? When you first start i agree, my broker got mad when traded bigger than i should have. He said 1 contract is alot even for a 10k account. Now that i have some expierence i realize know matter how much leverage you use, your loss is only limited to the amount of capital you have a risk.

If you need 6 million for 400 cars that means you would be expecting to have a 500% drawdown at some point?

 

[Lucias]

Quote from nwose:


If you need 6 million for 400 cars that means you would be expecting to have a 500% drawdown at some point?

Neither my math nor logic agrees with yours.. I chose a 4x leverage amount which is very reasonable albeit aggressive leverage. It's the equivalent of trading 1 car per 15k.. There wouldn't be any reason to leverage to a greater degree if one had such as significant account size. Indeed even that would be pushing it..

 

[Mercor]

Quote from Lucias:


Making a lot of points is not required.. wrong way to think about it. if you can average just $100/day on a 5k account (2 points) then that's a 5x return

To get real return you need to look at total contract value and total risk.
Mini ES is worth about 1200.00 x $50=$60,000

Your investment is each trade is 60k. That is the number you figure your percent of return from.