Thanks for post, I've had an interest in Solar since Iwas on the board of Solar Electric Engineering in Northern California. I would love to see some more solar farms.
Thanks!!
Don
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$1/watt solar??
- Thread starter scriabinop23
- Start date
Thanks for post, I've had an interest in Solar since Iwas on the board of Solar Electric Engineering in Northern California. I would love to see some more solar farms.
Thanks!!
Don
Quote from chisel:
According to the animation in the link below: On a sunny day, the sun delivers 277.8 watts/sq. ft.
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/flat/bown/2007/green/item_59.html
The steam plants have elevated parabolic mirrors and capture more square footage than the sites' square footage. That can be done with solar panels as well but they have to be able to stand the heat or the infrared has to be filtered. The steam plant is capturing the heat and the current generation photovoltaics convert light. There is talk of a fourth generation photovoltaic that is layered and converts the light in a couple of different spectrum bands and converts the heat too... those might get up in the 100 watt per square foot arena...
Quote from scriabinop23:
true in some ways, but a house by house method avoids one big downside: procuring land.
The house-by-house method also allows people to run independent of the grid. This has advantages and disadvantages. This setup would be a huge advantage during war, as the enemy wouldn't be able to easily knock out power to large areas. Same with natural disasters.
Another advantage is that house-by-house would keep the system updated better. Governments are notorious for running outdated systems. Just look at our current electrical grid. It is difficult to allocate resources on regional systems. House-by-house is just like replacing a furnace during a renovation project.
The big disadvantage is that a central grid system better allows for a specialized group to maintain the entire system with round-the-clock support. OTOH, home system repair needs supply jobs similar to electricians. But the current grid would still need to be maintained.
Excellent Commentary All...
..........................................................................................
Who knows.....but perhaps the price per unit would be drastically lower...if purchased for large projects...thus the wanted end product...namely electricity would be more feasible sooner rather than later...
If the cost savings were along the lines of 30 to 40% etc...this would make a big difference...
The main issue here is to get rid of subsidies...and the message from the article ....handles the notion of being competitive with coal....This message alludes to the idea of large municipal projects....
Personally I would rather have my own....because it would be nice to never receive another electric bill...independent indeed...
..........................................................................................
Who knows.....but perhaps the price per unit would be drastically lower...if purchased for large projects...thus the wanted end product...namely electricity would be more feasible sooner rather than later...
If the cost savings were along the lines of 30 to 40% etc...this would make a big difference...
The main issue here is to get rid of subsidies...and the message from the article ....handles the notion of being competitive with coal....This message alludes to the idea of large municipal projects....
Personally I would rather have my own....because it would be nice to never receive another electric bill...independent indeed...
Quote from libertad:
Excellent Commentary All...
..........................................................................................
Who knows.....but perhaps the price per unit would be drastically lower...if purchased for large projects...thus the wanted end product...namely electricity would be more feasible sooner rather than later...
If the cost savings were along the lines of 30 to 40% etc...this would make a big difference...
The main issue here is to get rid of subsidies...and the message from the article ....handles the notion of being competitive with coal....This message alludes to the idea of large municipal projects....
Personally I would rather have my own....because it would be nice to never receive another electric bill...independent indeed...
There is one major problem as I see it, for companies like this. All the cost comparisons are done using current electricity prices.
The problem is that if solar became widespread, quantity demanded for coal electric would drop considerably. Thus price would also drop and solar companies with low margins would be priced out again.
Eventually of course we would get to a point where margins on coal would be too low to support that industry, but that would take some seriously cheap solar panels.
Quote from Cache Landing:
There is one major problem as I see it, for companies like this. All the cost comparisons are done using current electricity prices.
The problem is that if solar became widespread, quantity demanded for coal electric would drop considerably. Thus price would also drop and solar companies with low margins would be priced out again.
Eventually of course we would get to a point where margins on coal would be too low to support that industry, but that would take some seriously cheap solar panels.
On the other hand, with oil prices this high, any extra electricity supply will get quickly consumed (thus bringing prices back up) by latent buildup from new sources: mainly electric cars / plug in hybrids.
Think about it. If the avg consumer gets wind that it costs 1/2 as much to run your car on electricity versus gasoline (which it doesn't right now i believe), the consumer will arb the difference until the electricity supply is used up.
I look forward to the day with roofs 100% covered with this stuff, plug in hybrids / all electric cars charging in every garage, etc
It will be interesting to see how these new approaches perform and in what time frame.
Excellent Commentary
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You are exactly right...
The oil welfare states that have lifting costs for $2 per barrel and under...rule the game...
Likewise with coal...
Also...if fat profit margins are made available by a new cheaper market entrant....they will not be giving energy away...
The main issue here is to be competitive day one...without subsidies or other add on costs...
The new technologies have to be cost competitive to its peers on their own....there needs to be gains to productivity upon introduction....
The oil welfare states whose total economies are oil based are accutely aware of playing this trump card....
Too bad the low lift cost oil is mostly in the Middle East..
The key points here being cost...and time...
A very tall order indeed...
...........................................................................
You are exactly right...
The oil welfare states that have lifting costs for $2 per barrel and under...rule the game...
Likewise with coal...
Also...if fat profit margins are made available by a new cheaper market entrant....they will not be giving energy away...
The main issue here is to be competitive day one...without subsidies or other add on costs...
The new technologies have to be cost competitive to its peers on their own....there needs to be gains to productivity upon introduction....
The oil welfare states whose total economies are oil based are accutely aware of playing this trump card....
Too bad the low lift cost oil is mostly in the Middle East..
The key points here being cost...and time...
A very tall order indeed...
Quote from scriabinop23:
good angle. otoh, likely the big box retailers want financial incentive to do it, a la space lease rate or tax benefit (which they'll likely get). But regardless, there is a cost.
You guys are years behind what is going on in the industry.
I really hope this isn't vaporware. Anyone have any efficiency stats on these panels, and power density per sq/ft #s?
I notice this data is nowhere to be easily found; makes me wonder if its just hype without deliverable product.
Because most likely it is vapoware. There is no technical data sheet, no product samples and the project they are shipping for is a closed off territory, hence you won't even be able to take a look.
The company never stated that they are able to sell at $1/watt. It's their goal. Their current product that is tied up for 12-18 months, noone knows at what price it is being sold. You don't even know what exactly is being sold.
It's not the first time these types of claims are made.
Quote from Hydroblunt:
You guys are years behind what is going on in the industry.
I've seen your other threads (and jousted with you unintentionally in the past), and just figured out you've got some issues. No one here professed infinite knowledge or mastery of the solar industry. You like to tell people they are wrong/stupid ...
I did some research on this...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superiority_complex
Superiority complex refers to a subconscious neurotic mechanism of compensation developed by the individual as a result of feelings of inferiority. The feelings of inferiority in this specific complex are often brought on by social rejection, possibly as a result of the individual's inattentiveness to hygiene, perceived ugliness, or lower intelligence as compared to others. The term was coined by Alfred Adler (February 7, 1870 â May 28, 1937), as part of his School of Individual psychology.
Those exhibiting the superiority complex commonly project their feelings of inferiority onto others they perceive as beneath them, possibly for the same reasons they themselves may have been ostracized, i.e. viewing most, possibly all others as "ugly" or "stupid", and beneath oneself. Accusations of arrogance and cockiness are often made by others when referring to the individual exhibiting the superiority complex.
Behaviors related to this mechanism may include an exaggeratedly positive opinion of oneâs worth and abilities, unrealistically high expectations in goals and achievements for oneself and others, vanity, extravagant style in dressing (with intent of drawing attention), pride, sentimentalism and affected exaltation, snobbishness, a tendency to discredit otherâs opinions, forcefulness aimed at dominating those considered as weaker or less important, credulity, and others.
Social aloofness, daydreaming and isolation could also be associated to the Superiority Complex, as a way to evade the fear of failure related to the feelings of inadequacy to face the real world.
Superiority and inferiority complex are often found together as the different expressions of the same pathology and the two complexes can exist within the same individual.
...Maybe the hydroponic marijuana growing/consumption is a result of your way of dealing? Poor guy, resorting to this vs strangers on a forum where we're merely sharing some enthusiasm for something we're optimistic about. (not that I entirely have a problem with you raining on my optimism, as I'm the OP who cried wonders for vaporware)
Also, to progress this conversation... I wonder if constant 'hopes' for cheaper solar are perhaps a tactic used by the anti-solar lobby in attempt to delay and halt widespread adoption. Any ideas here?
Set up a company to offer the impossible in "a few yrs" in attempt to get everyone to hold off.