1.7 million ACA-compliant QHPs sold OFF-exchange

[exGOPer]

1) let me give you some much needed advice ms wagner: telling people what they feel is an exercise in futility.

This is your first post on this thread

BECAUSE MY FUCKING PLAN WAS CANCELLED. .. BECAUSE of the aca, as newly insured, you are in fact retarded.

All CAPS and cursing are usually signs of people being upset, pardon me all over the place to not take it as a sign of serene calmness.

Then you called me names based on your wrong implications.

You sir, are a disingenuous asshole.

you think i was what, happy, my plan got cancelled? It is indeed outrageous for the gubberment to pick winners and losers in a nation founded on individual liberty.

I don't give a fuck about your plan, this thread was not for you to complain about your plan, if you are unable to stick to the topic and cook up implications to insult people then don't bother to reply.

2) what do you mean: "two more studies came out last week which again debunk people losing insurance." ARE (caps so u notice the word) you suggesting people didn't lose their insurance policies?

People lose their insurance policies regularly, before and after Obamacare, the studies show that MORE people have gained it and lost it. It's not even up for debate, 9+ million people gaining insurance as opposed to less than a million losing it is a good thing.

3) how do you figure i don't get this, when i fucking said if you were counting these people as newly insured you're a retard.

If you did get that part you inbred POS Con, you wouldn't be LYING about 6 million people losing insurance. Do you get how dumb you are by trying to talk both sides of yours mouth.

4) that's great but a million people who were covered, possibly aren't now. see #1 for why that's bullshit. does it occur to you that maybe they can't afford the new policies? Also does it occur to you that when the employer mandate finally kicks in there will possibly be many millions more who lose their existing policies?

Again, the study was done a month before the enrollment date ended and it showed LESS than a million people 'losing' their insurance, the numbers will be a lot smaller now.

Second, being underinsured isn't a good thing, most medical bankruptcies happen to people who think they have insurance.

Third, your employer mandate scaremongering is bullshit, CBO paints a very different picture than the prediction you pulled out of your ass.

also, the president is touting 7+ mil added, so if 4.5m of that is medicaid, then where are you getting 5 million (not including medicaid) newly insured from? the actual data isn't even available so this is all a waste of time anyway. it doesn't even matter if 9 mil got added, with subsidies, higher prem/ded, new taxes, and new bureaucracy.. this law does more harm than good.

Except Medicaid is NOT counted in that 7+ million. At least get the BASIC facts right.

http://acasignups.net/graph

5) dumb statement. there is no mixing private and public, all of this is payed for by taxpayers. every subsidy. the govt doesn't have money, they take it through taxes and give it away. im not for medicaid, i was making a point that if more than half of the newly insured are getting 100% subsidized it would have been a lot easier to simply expand medicaid than change the whole system. the reason they didn't do that is they needed to fuck over the young crowd with higher prems and the rich with taxes to try and pay for this garbage. .

Ever since Reagan's emergency room mandate, the tax payers have been on the hook - which is why Conservatives came up with this kind of reform.

I agree, it's easier to simply expand Medicaid/Medicare but when public option couldn't get past Congress, how the hell do you think a simple expansion would have been possible.

l'm outta here so have a good weekend getting ass pounded. lol

It's never too good to declare victory before the battle is over.

And given how you didn't even know that the 7+ million number didn't include Medicaid and the fact that 6+ million number you cited was a total lie, it's pretty clear who won this round.

 

[exGOPer]

I saw a big strawman

I don't believe I ever saw any republican expecting a lasting net reduction in coverage.
That would be an incredible failure considering there is an individual mandate and massive subsidies.

it would mean the plans were so bad and so expensive, people who previously were covered choose no insurance at at all. Not likely.

What i s most likely to happen is that when all is done. There will be very expensive premiums. The govt will therefore suck out ever disposable dollar of income from the working class and the FED will continue to inflate away people's lifetime of savings and investments. If person does manage to save anything in this oppressive regime they will take it back in estate taxes. Keeping the cronies on top.

The private tax payer working class will shrink to the point where 70% of Americans get handouts...
or there will a massive snap back to liberty and no income taxes.

that massive populist revolution to liberty is fighting and uphill battle. Unfortunately.


its going to take really good organizing and really charismatic leaders to fight through the media bullshit.

The majority of ACA has to do with letting people who don't have employer-sponsored health insurance off their cafeteria plans get access to the same choices those employer-sponsored folks get, and to get the exact same tax credit that the employer-sponsored folks do. That's it. That's all it is.

To turn this into some giant disaster that is always around the corner is stupid and short-sighted.

 

[PiggyBank]

1) This is your first post on this thread



All CAPS and cursing are usually signs of people being upset, pardon me all over the place to not take it as a sign of serene calmness.

2) Then you called me names based on your wrong implications.

3) You sir, are a disingenuous asshole.



4) I don't give a fuck about your plan, this thread was not for you to complain about your plan, if you are unable to stick to the topic and cook up implications to insult people then don't bother to reply.



5) People lose their insurance policies regularly, before and after Obamacare, the studies show that MORE people have gained it and lost it. It's not even up for debate, 6) 9+ million people gaining insurance as opposed to less than a million losing it is a good thing.



7) If you did get that part you inbred POS Con, you wouldn't be LYING about 6 million people losing insurance. Do you get how dumb you are by trying to talk both sides of yours mouth.



8) Again, the study was done a month before the enrollment date ended and it showed LESS than a million people 'losing' their insurance, the numbers will be a lot smaller now.

Second, being underinsured isn't a good thing, most medical bankruptcies happen to people who think they have insurance.

9) Third, your employer mandate scaremongering is bullshit, CBO paints a very different picture than the prediction you pulled out of your ass.



10) Except Medicaid is NOT counted in that 7+ million. At least get the BASIC facts right.

http://acasignups.net/graph



11) Ever since Reagan's emergency room mandate, the tax payers have been on the hook - which is why Conservatives came up with this kind of reform.

I agree, it's easier to simply expand Medicaid/Medicare but when public option couldn't get past Congress, how the hell do you think a simple expansion would have been possible.




12) It's never too good to declare victory before the battle is over.

And given how you didn't even know that the 7+ million number didn't include Medicaid and the fact that 6+ million number you cited was a total lie, it's pretty clear who won this round.

1) NO, it isn't. that's an edited version of my post. who's actually being disingenuous?

2) I call you names because I don't fucking like you. my "implications" was that you can't count ppl who lost their coverage and bought back in as newly insured and IF that was what you were implying by starting this worthless thread, you were retarded. what don't u understand about that.

3) im not being disingenuous or dishonest about anything.

4) exactly, u don't care i lost my plan, and I don't care that other people don't have insurance. the only segment of the uninsured that i have sympathy for are the preexisting crowd, but getting them access is not worth the rest of obamacare, not even close.

5) this is a cop out. again, are you saying people didn't lose their policies because of the aca? cause from your own unofficial graph, made by some random from MN, 3.7m had their policies cancelled, and 1.5m more, will, when the unconstitutional delay expires.

6) nonsense. giving millions of people handouts is a major problem. gov picking winners and losers is a major problem. both of which mean way more than x amount of ppl getting hc insurance.

7) pole smoker, it's YOU who is the fucking liar. it is clear in my first post, which you edited above^, that i thought people who lost their coverage, bt new plans. I never said that 6 mil people are UNINSURED because of obamacare, I said they lost their existing coverage and you can't count them as newly insured when they buy a new plan, IF that was what you were doing. if you don't understand this, dial 911.

8) we don't have the actual data, don't pretend you KNOW the numbers. i didn't post here to get into a drawn out argument with an irrational obama dick rider over the unreleased aca signup numbers. I thought i was clear, but in case i wasn't, this number means absolutely nothing to me. The law is bad for: the mandate, the new taxes, the subsidies, the gov picking winners and losers, the additional bureaucracy, and the new 'entitlement'. It is also not even estimated by the almighty CBO, to cover all the uninsured. it is a gargantuan pile of shit.

9) people are going to lose their existing coverage when the employer mandate is enforced. why do you think it has been unconstitutionally postponed?

10) learn to read fuckhead. I posted a QUESTION, not a statement of fact.

"also, the president is touting 7+ mil added, so if 4.5m of that is medicaid, then where are you getting 5 million (not including medicaid) newly insured from? "

11) don't care what Reagan did, what the conservatives plan was etc. this law is bad for reasons already stated.

12) you're hallucinating. You don't even get what i was saying and you're telling me im wrong. lmao.

 

[exGOPer]

1) NO, it isn't. that's an edited version of my post. who's actually being disingenuous?.

I was HIGHLIGHTING the shouting and the cursing to prove that you were UPSET.

You are the one being disingenuous

2) I call you names because I don't fucking like you. my "implications" was that you can't count ppl who lost their coverage and bought back in as newly insured and IF that was what you were implying by starting this worthless thread, you were retarded. what don't u understand about that.

Nothing in my post suggested that, your IMPLICATION was wrong and given your worthless assumptions and implications, your personal opinions on anything else is fucking useless.

3) im not being disingenuous or dishonest about anything. .

So you keep saying.

4) exactly, u don't care i lost my plan, and I don't care that other people don't have insurance. the only segment of the uninsured that i have sympathy for are the preexisting crowd, but getting them access is not worth the rest of obamacare, not even close..

Who the fuck cares about your sympathy or concern? Public policy is not made for your personal benefit.

This is why ACA was needed.

5) this is a cop out. again, are you saying people didn't lose their policies because of the aca? cause from your own unofficial graph, made by some random from MN, 3.7m had their policies cancelled, and 1.5m more, will, when the unconstitutional delay expires.

People lost their policies before ACA in large numbers and MANY couldn't get insurance or were underinsured - where was the Conservative concern trolling back then? Why didn't Cons try to do something about it during the years they had full control of the government. What's with being reactionaries all the time.

As for your unconstitutional delays, let me educate you on the law.

26 USC § 6056 - Certain employers required to report on health insurance coverage


Current through Pub. L. 113-36. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)
(a) In general
Every applicable large employer required to meet the requirements of section 4980H with respect to its full-time employees during a calendar year shall, at such time as the Secretary may prescribe, make a return described in subsection (b).


http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/6056

Notice the 'secretary may prescribe' bit, the discretion for regulations were built into the law, what's unconstitutional about following the law as written?

6) nonsense. giving millions of people handouts is a major problem. gov picking winners and losers is a major problem. both of which mean way more than x amount of ppl getting hc insurance.

Again, not true, see the CBO report image above.

7) pole smoker, it's YOU who is the fucking liar. it is clear in my first post, which you edited above^, that i thought people who lost their coverage, bt new plans. I never said that 6 mil people are UNINSURED because of obamacare, I said they lost their existing coverage and you can't count them as newly insured when they buy a new plan, IF that was what you were doing. if you don't understand this, dial 911.

This is what you wrote.

Originally Posted by PiggyBank
also, the president is touting 7+ mil added, so if 4.5m of that is medicaid, then where are you getting 5 million (not including medicaid) newly insured from?

The 7+million is the PRIVATE QHP enrollees that DOES NOT INCLUDE Medicaid, Medicaid numbers are separate and more than 5 million or so already.

How many times do I have to prove that you are a liar?

8) we don't have the actual data, don't pretend you KNOW the numbers. i didn't post here to get into a drawn out argument with an irrational obama dick rider over the unreleased aca signup numbers. I thought i was clear, but in case i wasn't, this number means absolutely nothing to me. The law is bad for: the mandate, the new taxes, the subsidies, the gov picking winners and losers, the additional bureaucracy, and the new 'entitlement'. It is also not even estimated by the almighty CBO, to cover all the uninsured. it is a gargantuan pile of shit.

The data is there if you bothered to look, pulling stuff out of the ass to stay outraged simply suits some people.

9) people are going to lose their existing coverage when the employer mandate is enforced. why do you think it has been unconstitutionally postponed?

Pardon me all over the place for not relying on you for unbiased numbers given you couldn't get the basics of ACA numbers right.

Post a CBO report that backs up your assertion.

Also, the law gives the administration powers to implement the law as they see it, do you want me to post the Treasury Dept. explanation of it?

10) learn to read fuckhead. I posted a QUESTION, not a statement of fact.
"also, the president is touting 7+ mil added, so if 4.5m of that is medicaid, then where are you getting 5 million (not including medicaid) newly insured from? "

You were not asking how many signed up for Medicaid, you stated the 4.5 million as fact and THEN asked a question on number of newly insured.

LOL, who are you trying to fool Con?

11) don't care what Reagan did, what the conservatives plan was etc. this law is bad for reasons already stated.

For someone with insurance, how can you not care about the free rider problem that kept pushing your premiums higher?

12) you're hallucinating. You don't even get what i was saying and you're telling me im wrong. lmao.

I know what you are saying and I am telling you that you are full of shit.

 

[PiggyBank]

... 1) Nothing in my post suggested that, your IMPLICATION was wrong and given your worthless assumptions and implications, your personal opinions on anything else is fucking useless.
...
2) Who the fuck cares about your sympathy or concern? 2) Public policy is not made for your personal benefit.

3) This is why ACA was needed.
...
4) People lost their policies before ACA in large numbers and MANY couldn't get insurance or were underinsured - where was the Conservative concern trolling back then? Why didn't Cons try to do something about it during the years they had full control of the government. What's with being reactionaries all the time.

5) As for your unconstitutional delays, let me educate you on the law.

26 USC § 6056 - Certain employers required to report on health insurance coverage


Current through Pub. L. 113-36. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)
(a) In general
Every applicable large employer required to meet the requirements of section 4980H with respect to its full-time employees during a calendar year shall, at such time as the Secretary may prescribe, make a return described in subsection (b).


http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/6056

6) Notice the 'secretary may prescribe' bit, the discretion for regulations were built into the law, what's unconstitutional about following the law as written?

7) Again, not true, see the CBO report image above.



8) This is what you wrote.

pole smoker, it's YOU who is the fucking liar. it is clear in my first post, which you edited above^, that i thought people who lost their coverage, bt new plans. I never said that 6 mil people are UNINSURED because of obamacare, I said they lost their existing coverage and you can't count them as newly insured when they buy a new plan, IF that was what you were doing. if you don't understand this, dial 911.

The 7+million is the PRIVATE QHP enrollees that DOES NOT INCLUDE Medicaid, Medicaid numbers are separate and more than 5 million or so already.

How many times do I have to prove that you are a liar?
...
9) Pardon me all over the place for not relying on you for unbiased numbers given you couldn't get the basics of ACA numbers right.

10) Post a CBO report that backs up your assertion.

11) Also, the law gives the administration powers to implement the law as they see it, do you want me to post the Treasury Dept. explanation of it?



12) You were not asking how many signed up for Medicaid, you stated the 4.5 million as fact and THEN asked a question on number of newly insured.

LOL, who are you trying to fool Con?



13) For someone with insurance, how can you not care about the free rider problem that kept pushing your premiums higher?



14) I know what you are saying and I am telling you that you are full of shit.

1) nothing in ur thread title or OP suggested much of anything. since you regularly spam the board with pro obama everything, I assumed you were posting this as some sort of obamacare victory. It isn't, and i wanted to make that clear. people had their coverage cancelled because of the aca.. meaning they were forced to get new coverage. it's definitely not something to brag about.

2) I'm not the one who wants policy made to favor me, that's your 'team'. that's what obamacare is all about, helping a special interest at the cost of everyone else. I want the fed govt to stick to it's Constitutional obligations and stay out of this social justice/fairness bullshit.

3) Here is the 10k foot perspective on the aca, from your infallible CBO: Year 2024, uninsured - 31 million, total net cost - $1.354 TRILLION. http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/43900-2014-02-ACAtables.pdf. We are 17+T in debt already, adding to it is just dumb. This doesn't even account for the fact that the aca raises taxes and costs younger, healthy people more than it did previously. bad for the economy and unfair to young ppl.

4) you can't answer the question, so I'll do it for you. The fact is millions of people (the exact number is disputed) had their policies cancelled and changes in the law were cited as the reason. the admin even had to own up, you're the only one denying it. Quit the bs about how all the plans were sub par/fraud cause it just isn't so. For a young person a catastrophic plan is all they need.

5) unreal, you're a one 'man' disinformation campaign. First of all, I was talking about the delay of the individual mandate, not the employer mandate. yes the pres unilaterally pushed back the date that individual policies have to comply with the law, AND he did it because so many people were outraged by his "if you like your hc plan, you can keep your hc plan. period." LIE.

here is the bill: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-111publ148/pdf/PLAW-111publ148.pdf.

the mandate sections begin on pg 124. On pg 126 the opening paragraph of Chapter 48 - Maintenance of Minimum Essential Coverage, (individual mandate) states in plain english:

"An applicable individual shall for each month beginning
after 2013 ensure that the individual, and any dependent of the
individual who is an applicable individual, is covered under min-
imum essential coverage for such month."

it then goes on to detail the PENALTY for not complying, etc. on pg 131, the section ends:

"Chapter 48 - Maintenance of Minimum Essential Coverage"
"The amendments made by this section shall apply to taxable years ending after December 31, 2013."

it's the same deal with the employer mandate, which begins on pg 134. the section you provided a link to, is a subsection, Sec. 6056.. which details the REPORTING ONLY of hc policies to the Secretary, not the date employers are required to comply with the law. AND this is how the section ends, pg 140:

‘Sec. 6056. Large employers required to report on health insurance coverage.’’.
"EFFECTIVE DATE.—The amendments made by this section
shall apply to periods beginning after December 31, 2013."

6) i don't see any ambiguity here, it's a set date. wannabe tyrant obama changed the law and he has no authority to.

7) wrong. go ahead and look at the link to the CBO report. millions of people are expected to be subsidized. Premiums are going higher for certain demographics, namely young people. It's essential to the law that young people sign up because they are less risky and their premiums have to increase to pay for the new risk (preexisting conditions) in the system.

8) im gonna assume you made a mistake here. what you wrote has absolutely nothing to do with what you quoted. you really need to shut the fuck up about me lying because I've thoroughly demonstrated, several times, that i never stated or implied 6mil people are uninsured because of obamacare. just because you can't/won't accept it, doesn't make it a lie, it makes you a douche. my first post and whole point of me posting here was that those who lost coverage, bought new plans and don't count as newly insured. you said that's not the point of the thread and i understand that wasn't what you were doing, but I DIDN'T fucking state or imply 6mil people are uninsured because of the aca, which is what you said i lied about.

9) it's true that i had no idea about 'the numbers" for this enrollment period, because as i've said i couldn't care less about this number. it's just noise and doesn't change the fundamental flaws of this policy. Also, as far as i know, the govt hasn't released the official numbers yet.

10) from the CBO link above. table 2, item labeled: employment based coverage projects a decline n said item over the next 10 years.

here's another report: http://cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/03-15-ACA_and_Insurance_2.pdf

"Despite the care and effort that CBO and JCT have devoted to modeling the
health insurance system and the provisions of the ACA, there is clearly a
tremendous amount of uncertainty about how employers and employees will
respond to the set of opportunities and incentives under that legislation."

bottom line, if it costs less for an employer to drop coverage than pay the fine, they're gonna drop it. no one knows how many will, and neither does obama, which is why he pushed back the compliance date until after the elections, illegally.

11) see #5. who cares what obamas treasury has to say when the law plainly states that there was a set date for both mandates.

12) wrong retard, it was a question. you seem to struggle hard with the word 'if'.

13) not nearly the problem that this law is and is going to be.

14) if you can't even admit that i didn't lie, then i know for sure you're intention is just to repeat false info and hope it sticks. either way you're still wrong about.. well almost everything. get bck under the bridge where you belong gopher.

 

[PiggyBank]

8) im gonna assume you made a mistake here. what you wrote has absolutely nothing to do with what you quoted. you really need to shut the fuck up about me lying because I've thoroughly demonstrated, several times, that i never stated or implied 6mil people are uninsured because of obamacare. just because you can't/won't accept it, doesn't make it a lie, it makes you a douche. my first post and whole point of me posting here was that *those who lost coverage, bought new plans and don't count as newly insured. you said that's not the point of the thread and i understand that wasn't what you were doing, but I DIDN'T fucking state or imply 6mil people are uninsured because of the aca, which is what you said i lied about .

*and to clarify, i shouldn't say "those who lost coverage" but "those who received cancellation letters for their policies." i don't want you trying to play semantics when what i meant is clear.