1/4% Tax on all stock trades pushed in NY Times today

Quote from TraDaToR:


PS: By the way, those who traded these 11000 lots must be really stupid/hedging for clients / trading between exempted MMs for an illusion of activity.
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Perhaps mostly existing positions, people will be closing out positions naturally over the next few weeks and taking a one time hit.

Will be interesting to see how many will be prepared to open new positions in the future.
 
Quote from TraDaToR:

MIB Futures volume 11000 lots yesterday. Lowest volume of the last 4 weeks. Last week, daily volume between 14000 and 25000...Too early for conclusion but still...

http://www.borsaitaliana.it/borsa/derivati/ftse-mib-futures/grafico.html?isin=IT0010995154&lang=en

PS: By the way, those who traded these 11000 lots must be really stupid/hedging for clients / trading between exempted MMs for an illusion of activity.
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I'm not glad to see that, but actually the volume increased the following days, and has been this week in line with the volume since the beginning of summer.
 
let's face it. an ftt WITH market maker exemption would most likely work.

it's ridiculously unfair. a measure targeted to hit the big boys, is tweaked and tweaked until the big boys are exempt. all that "let's go after the people who start the crisis" rhetoric, all bs.

if the euro-ftt would ever include a market maker exemption (thank god no sign of that yet), then we're in real trouble.
 
Quote from luisHK:

I'm not glad to see that, but actually the volume increased the following days, and has been this week in line with the volume since the beginning of summer.
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Yes I saw that too. I don't know the italian law to comment. What is the tax level on MIB futures? I can't see how it can stay at that level if it is set at something like 0.01%, even with MM exemption...Or it means all the volume is just banks executing orders for really dumb clients...
 
Quote from bjw:

let's face it. an ftt WITH market maker exemption would most likely work.

it's ridiculously unfair. a measure targeted to hit the big boys, is tweaked and tweaked until the big boys are exempt. all that "let's go after the people who start the crisis" rhetoric, all bs.

if the euro-ftt would ever include a market maker exemption (thank god no sign of that yet), then we're in real trouble.
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you know, I dont think so. I think it will still play out the same way. without the retail player. These people that draft these pro ftt arguments are also keynesian central planners. they have a terrific track record of failure.

Eventually things must turn for the better, and the way things are going, there is no end to turmoil in sight. If they push for an ftt it will fail at this point. the time to tax is when things are well. I would welcome this idea, now, so it fails immediately. we may have to go through pain, but as sweden found out, it is the worst idea ever. It will be the end of the euro as we know it, and implementing this ridiculous idea will only exacerbate its demise.

As traders we just trade away from these markets. if they conspire to destroy the markets, cant we do the same and hold them together?
 
Quote from PARACLESE:



As traders we just trade away from these markets. if they conspire to destroy the markets, cant we do the same and hold them together?
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The problem for FTT based traders is no matter which market they trade, they would be hit by the FTT anyway.
 
OK. Just found why volume didn't drop. Check out the table for derivatives. Not sure, but I think the tax amount for a stock index futures of 50000-100000 Euros notional value is 15c. The amount is fixed in Euros and not percents. It corresponds to a tax of 0.00015%. It's like a big NFA Fee. I don't like it, it is exactly the kind of amount that can be absorbed without noticing by retail traders/ pension funds...

http://www.borsaitaliana.it/speciali/equitymarketsnews/presentazioneftt.en_pdf.htm
 
I think what we all want is something not noticeable. we already have ftt in us markets. TAF. I could care less about sec and taf fees because they dont bother me even if i trade a ridiculous amount of shares.

.1% is severely noticeable and what some brokers here in europe charge for commissions. This would effectively put government in the brokerage seat which eventually they would find ways to smooth out the tax and get people trading more.

the market will eventually decide what to do with these things, not governments.

I am throwing up these arguments but I am seriously opposed to the idea, any idea of new tax. taxes are created by people who dont work for a living. if you need proof, come to greece.

At luisHK, I maybe someone who is not following the debate as closely as some of you. can you please elaborate on how ftt residents can be taxed on this if they are setup offshore and trade in other markets? i think via adrs only, right? my prop firm just rejects any orders for those symbols like ALU. isnt this taxed at source?
 
Quote from PARACLESE:

I

At luisHK, I maybe someone who is not following the debate as closely as some of you. can you please elaborate on how ftt residents can be taxed on this if they are setup offshore and trade in other markets? i think via adrs only, right? my prop firm just rejects any orders for those symbols like ALU. isnt this taxed at source?
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Actually i already mentioned the solution for ftt residents would probably be to trade through corporations set up outside the FTT area, I don't think either they would be impacted by the FTT when trading non FTT related products.
 
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