1/4% Tax on all stock trades pushed in NY Times today

[Rantany]

Apart from the objections of Finnish PM, also Monti has 'always' said he only would support a FTT at EU(27) level, not less. I don't know how much we can trust Monti on his words, but if we can, this letter doesn't necessarily have to mean that they really are considering the option of an ‘enhanced cooperation', it still could be just a 'remarkable' coincidence. But maybe we can't trust the statements of any politician

 

[tomdavis]

Quote from Rantany:

But maybe we can't trust the statements of any politician

You're right. Perhaps we should assume that politicans will do the opposite of what's logical. For example, the Netherlands has commissioned two FTT studies, one from the Ministry of Economic Affairs and one from the Dutch Central Bank. Both studies have been very negative on the FTT, even calling it a "bad idea." So, from this we should assume that the Netherlands will soon issue a statement supporting the FTT. The Dutch people I've known have always been very honest and logical, but nothing would surprise me anymore.

 

[Explorer]

The demands of votes and and wallets don't always coincide.

 

[Rantany]

Quote from tomdavis:

You're right. Perhaps we should assume that politicans will do the opposite of what's logical. For example, the Netherlands has commissioned two FTT studies, one from the Ministry of Economic Affairs and one from the Dutch Central Bank. Both studies have been very negative on the FTT, even calling it a "bad idea." So, from this we should assume that the Netherlands will soon issue a statement supporting the FTT. Perhaps Sweden will change their minds, too.

Ok, Borg (and Cameron) maybe not, but indeed it annoys me that despite all those negative advice and studies, Dutch government still hasn't spoken out loud against the FTT. Even though I can't imagine they would support it, it would be nice if they could finally confirm this.

 

[tomdavis]

Quote from Rantany:

Ok, Borg (and Cameron) maybe not, but indeed it annoys me that despite all those negative advice and studies, Dutch government still hasn't spoken out loud against the FTT. Even though I can't imagine they would support it, it would be nice if they could finally confirm this.

A year ago the Dutch Finance Minister often spoke out against the FTT, then he suddenly went silent.

 

[Rantany]

Quote from tomdavis:

A year ago the Dutch Finance Minister often spoke out against the FTT, then he suddenly went silent.

Indeed, that's what still bothers me. They had all the reasons to be firmly against the FTT, but then 'suddenly' (after a talk with Merkel) they changed their minds, and dutch PM says he is in favor, if 'sufficient' countries would support it. And there's is still no clarity.

 

[bjw]

Quote from Rantany:

Indeed, that's what still bothers me. They had all the reasons to be firmly against the FTT, but then 'suddenly' (after a talk with Merkel) they changed their minds, and dutch PM says he is in favor, if 'sufficient' countries would support it. And there's is still no clarity.

first holland said they wanted to wait for their CPB-findings -> these findings were extremely negative
then holland said they had studied the cpb-report, but found the cpb wasn't able to comment on all relevant areas, and that they had asked the dutch national bank and the financial markets-regulator to also present their opinions -> the dnb-report was also extremely negative. the regulator hasn't spoken out yet (i think) but no way that they will be positive about the ftt.
the dutch fm announced they would publicly announce their point of view somewhere in february; i truly have no doubt they will speak out against the ftt. they have unbiased institutions saying no, (unlike other euro-countries) they have a safe majority in parliament that says no and research clearly shows the netherlands will be hit excessively by this tax (like the uk) compared to other countries. even the left doesn't seem all that eager, in a sense that they say they're pro-ftt but hardly mention it anywhere. the dutch might not want to offend their german neighbours by speaking out too loudly, but they didn't sign yesterday's letter to speed up the ftt-process, and i'm convinced they won't join their ranks just like that.

one thing i would wish for they would be just as vocal about it as for example sweden and the uk have been, but i don't see that happening. too much dependance on germany and too much dependance on the euro-countries in general.

 

[Rantany]

Quote from bjw:

the dutch fm announced they would publicly announce their point of view somewhere in february;

[...]

Ah, i must have missed that, i'm glad we don't have to wait much longer now. Actually i agree with all you said, but i just want that official confirmation

Then with Netherlands, Ireland, Luxembourg, Malta, Italy (no EZ-only), etc. against, a FTT, even under an 'enhanced cooperation' seems not possible. Maybe, Germany would still come with some alternative stamp duty proposals, of which they (Rösler) were speaking, but hopefully then no one (except France) is interested anymore.

 

[Robert A. Green]

Quote from sheda:

France Details Financial Tax Proposal, Hopes To Set Precedent


http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20120208-713375.html

French cabinet approves financial transactions tax < French news | Expatica France

http://www.expatica.com/fr/news/fre...proves-financial-transactions-tax_207051.html

...It still needs to pass France's Parlament, for a scheduled effective date Aug 1. French headquartered stocks with caps over 1 bil. Will Parlament pass it? Politics for that considering the election?

 

[Robert A. Green]

Quote from Rantany:

Indeed, that's what still bothers me. They had all the reasons to be firmly against the FTT, but then 'suddenly' (after a talk with Merkel) they changed their minds, and dutch PM says he is in favor, if 'sufficient' countries would support it. And there's is still no clarity.

Merkel is strong arming everyone. Her way, including FTT, or the highway. Buck Merkel and her fiscal-compact with austerity measures to save the euro zone, and she will ostracize you from bailouts and help in the future. Merkel still wants FTT in that fiscal pact. Even the UK is intimidated. Every smaller country feels great pressure to buckle. Prospects in Europe are still dismal and member countries are scared.

Remember Bear Stearns said no to LT Capital bailouts in 1998, and the Fed, Treasury and other big banks said if Bear ever needed help they would say no, and they did say no in 2008. Don't expect much back-bone here.