1/4% Tax on all stock trades pushed in NY Times today

[sheda]

if you really think the ftt is some sort of a mass-conspiracy of the evil germans to try to destroy other's countries competitive advantages

The commissions own report and every piece of analysis written by the well informed clearly, without a doubt points out the damage that will be caused by the FTT and the damage to Britain's competitive advantage is clear.

We have long ago gone past the point at which you had to either think:

A - Those in power pushing for this are to stupid to understand the reports they them selves requested

B - They know exactly what they are doing, the damage it will cause, and whats more if a country has made it clear they will veto it, they are willing to change its design and force it onto them regardless.

 

[sheda]

Guru:

http://www.moneymarketing.co.uk/reg...could-be-forced-on-all-states/1043281.article

 

[bjw]

Quote from sheda:
B - They know exactly what they are doing, the damage it will cause, and whats more if a country has made it clear they will veto it, they are willing to change its design and force it onto them regardless.

but, let's face facts and be practical. they can't force them. there's no realistic possible scenario in which, for example, the uk would be forced into implementing a tax they really don't want, regardless of whatever might or might not be hypothetically possible under existing eu-treaties.

 

[tortoise]

Quote from bjw:

true. that's why the UK is having none of it and won't implement it. good for them.

They haven't implemented it...yet. This thing is not over.

Quote from bjw:
if all of this was a deliberate germany strategy to shut down the uk

I didn't say that was "all" the FTT was. And I don't know what you mean by "shut down the uk."

Regardless, there you go again, setting up straw men to ignite. After I asked you to kindly stop mischaracterizing my statements.

Either you know what you're doing, and you're being disingenuous. Or your command of the English language is too shaky to grasp the nuances I've conveyed, in which case you shouldn't be picking fights on English language message boards.

Either way, bjw, you have the dubious honor of being the first person I've ever placed on IGNORE.

Buh-bye.

 

[sheda]

Quote from bjw:

but, let's face facts and be practical. they can't force them. there's no realistic possible scenario in which, for example, the uk would be forced into implementing a tax they really don't want, regardless of whatever might or might not be hypothetically possible under existing eu-treaties.

That has nothing to do with there reasons for wanting it, if its not about destroying competitive advantages, and its useless due to it not making any revenue, tell us, what is it about?

 

[tortoise]

Quote from sheda:

The commissions own report and every piece of analysis written by the well informed clearly, without a doubt points out the damage that will be caused by the FTT and the damage to Britain's competitive advantage is clear.

We have long ago gone past the point at which you had to either think:

A - Those in power pushing for this are to stupid to understand the reports they them selves requested

B - They know exactly what they are doing, the damage it will cause, and whats more if a country has made it clear they will veto it, they are willing to change its design and force it onto them regardless.

Exactly.

 

[bjw]

Quote from sheda:

That has nothing to do with there reasons for wanting it, if its not about destroying competitive advantages, and its useless due to it not making any revenue, tell us, what is it about?

option A you mentioned in a previous post does make some sense to me to be honest. remember, there are acclaimed economists as well, even in the us, that think the ftt is genuinely a good idea. a lot of these people fail to see beyond the sentimental reasons behind the FTT (the bankers should pay back what they owe bla bla bla) and ignore the economic reasoning that is so overwhelmingly against this. on top of this, a tax that a majority of the eu-population is in favour off is pretty damn rare. in a time when cuts in government spending are on everybody's mind (and increasing opposition of the masses against these cuts) this is difficult for any politician to ignore.

 

[sheda]

Quote from bjw:

option A you mentioned in a previous post does make some sense to me to be honest. remember, there are acclaimed economists as well, even in the us, that think the ftt is genuinely a good idea. a lot of these people fail to see beyond the sentimental reasons behind the FTT (the bankers should pay back what they owe bla bla bla) and ignore the economic reasoning that is so overwhelmingly against this.

They ignored the economic reasoning that was so overwhelmingly against the creation of the EZ in its present form, and the result of there mistake?

More Europe, More integration, More power. They aren't actually stupid hence they rule Europe.

And let the attacks on the UK begin.

UK rating should be downgraded', says Bank of France chief

Britain should have its credit rating downgraded before France, the head of the French central bank has said, deepening the war of words between the two country's since last week's EU treaty veto.


'Cameron behaved like an obstinate kid at Brussels summit,' sneers Sarkozy.


UK should be stripped of its EU rebate over use of veto at summit, declares MEP leader.

 

[tortoise]

Quote from bjw:

option A you mentioned in a previous post does make some sense to me to be honest. remember, there are acclaimed economists as well, even in the us, that think the ftt is genuinely a good idea. a lot of these people fail to see beyond the sentimental reasons behind the FTT (the bankers should pay back what they owe bla bla bla) and ignore the economic reasoning that is so overwhelmingly against this. on top of this, a tax that a majority of the eu-population is in favour off is pretty damn rare. in a time when cuts in government spending are on everybody's mind (and increasing opposition of the masses against these cuts) this is difficult for any politician to ignore.

So I thought I had you on ignore, but it didn't work. Glad, though (more about that in a moment). In the meantime, FYI, everyone...

1) Depending on one's definition of "acclaimed", the "acclaimed economists" in the US who support FTT can be counted on one hand. Maybe one finger.

2) Recipients of TARP funds have paid off their loans IN FULL PLUS INTEREST. (Unlike, say, General Motors.) In other words, in the US, at least, THE "BANKERS" HAVE PAID BACK EVERY PENNY THEY OWE.


As for why I'm glad I didn't put bjw on ignore after all...

Here's my crazy theory--and, unlike my assertions about German intentions, this one is a completely ungrounded stab-in-the-dark...my guess is that bjw is a pro-FTT guy.

Yeah, I'm probably nuts. And, no, I'm not a conspiracy theorist. But something's off here, bjw. In any event, I look forward to deconstructing your posts-to-come.

 

[bjw]

Quote from tortoise:
2) Recipients of TARP funds have paid off their loans IN FULL PLUS INTEREST. (Unlike, say, General Motors.) In other words, in the US, at least, THE "BANKERS" HAVE PAID BACK EVERY PENNY THAT THEY OWE.

true, but the public image of the typical banker is so extremely bad nowadays, any hint of a tax measure to fight the banker is widely celebrated. it shows how all of this isn't about facts anymore, but about sentiment, and how the anti-ftt should try to change that. it's sad to see how, with the exception of malta, a majority in every eu countries population is pro-ftt. but while it's sad, you can't ignore it and you can't underestimate it as the ultimate reason why some countries are so keen on implementing it.
that's why it's so imporant to force people to look at the facts, that they themselves will ultimately end up paying the ftt, and not the bankers; either directly through their pension funds, or indirectly through economic decline. there's no need to get lost in subjective ramblings that don't adress these facts but are simply personal opinions, because the facts are with us.

Quote from tortoise:
Here's my crazy theory--and, unlike my assertions about German intentions, this one is a stab-in-the-dark...my guess is that bjw is a pro-FTT mole.

nice one. if someone doesn't agree with your crazy theories about something completely non-ftt related, he must be pro-ftt as well. well, keep posting that thought, it tells readers a lot more about you than about me.