The only good thing on the political front is that 2010 was a Rebulican ass whooping and should continue. Intrade had a Republican majority in 2012 in the Senate as 75% chance and keeping the house. I worry odumbo can win with the current field. Also mentioned above, the heavy democratic states of IL and NY will not vote for FTT IMO.
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1/4% Tax on all stock trades pushed in NY Times today
- Thread starter seasideheights
- Start date
Quote from tortoise:
Germany's strategy is to neutralize the advantages of its potential competitors through whatever means necessary. In this sense, the nation remains true to its roots and the principles that led it to launch two world wars and bring previously unimagined industrial efficiency and scale to the practice of genocide.
We'd do well to remember Santayana's warning--those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it. [/B]
I absolutely concur with this analysis and don't believe it is even mildly over-reaching what we are seeing.
Until recently, the world outside the European cabal reacted little more than slightly miffed by their forceful demands. Since the UK did not back down, what was once an easily dismissed sabre rattling exercise has quickly, obsessively, advanced to a nastier tone, complete with threats.
The woman and her power-broker minions are dangerous.
Quote from tortoise:
Germany's strategy is to neutralize the advantages of its potential competitors through whatever means necessary. In this sense, the nation remains true to its roots and the principles that led it to launch two world wars and bring previously unimagined industrial efficiency and scale to the practice of genocide.
Am I overreaching? Maybe. But the historical resonances are hard to overlook, right down to blame-the-bankers agitprop and the Neville Chamberlin-style dupes all-to-willing to advance Germany's agenda at their own country's expense. We'd do well to remember Santayana's warning--those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it.
no offence, but what a truly disgraceful post. i personally don't want to be affiliated with people who think it's proper to link today's Germany to what happened in a completely different generation in the World Wars and especially the holocaust, simply because germany nowadays supports a stupid tax we coincedentally opose. imo it's extremely bad taste and of such a ridiculously different order it isn't even funny. it does make me wonder what sort of people are actually with me in this anti-ftt fight.
i'm sure many people are merely reading these threads, and not posting. i can assure you the fastest way to split our camp is by posting this kind of stuff that doesn't help anyone.
Under the circumstances, your use of the phrase "truly disgraceful" is curious. I've merely considered German's contemporary behavior in the context of its history, a history punctuated by chapters that are themselves generally regarded as "truly disgraceful."Quote from bjw:
no offence, but what a truly disgraceful post. i personally don't want to be affiliated with people who think it's proper to link today's Germany to what happened in a completely different generation in the World Wars and especially the holocaust, simply because germany nowadays supports a stupid tax we coincedentally opose.
Your implication that the the actions of a "different generation" have no relationship to those of the current generation is both ahistorical and, frankly, obtuse. No serious individual would, or should, blame the current generation for the actions of past generations (note the plural). At the same time, I'm not sure how a thoughtful and honest individual can assert that the actions of past generations (again, note the plural) did not arise from a cultural context that is wholly unrelated to that of the present day. That's what I'm doing--looking at Germany's current behavior in the context of its unfolding history. It's a history characterized, since Bismark, by the overriding desire to control Europe.
One might argue as to whether said desire to control Europe is "proper." I have a difficult time imagining how one could consider a contextual examination of German policies in this regard to be "improper."
But I guess you do. It's a big world.
In other words, let's not talk about the past if it makes people uncomfortable? (I assume you're not referring to the past itself, which was, I'm sure you'd agree, beyond "extremely bad taste.").Quote from bjw:
imo it's extremely bad taste....
This reminds me of something Hitler was reported to have said when asked whether posterity might judge Germans harshly for the Holocaust: "Who remembers the Armenians?"
Actually, what "isn't even funny" are the easy parallels between the current cast of characters and those in bygone eras of "extremely bad taste." For example, Sarkozy and Vichy...the Eurozone and GroÃdeutsches Reich...England, standing alone.Quote from bjw:
...and of such a ridiculously different order it isn't even funny
But I don't want to get didactic here.
Oh, I get it. You're German, right?Quote from bjw:
...today's Germany...
I'm the son of a German girl who was orphaned after her Lutheran parents were sent to Dachau for hiding a Jewish family in their attic. Still with me?Quote from bjw:
it does make me wonder what sort of people are actually with me in this anti-ftt fight.
Quote from tortoise:
Ok. Under the circumstances, I'd say that's a curious use of the phrase "truly disgraceful." I'm merely considering German's contemporary behavior in the context of history, a history punctuated by chapters that are generally regarded as "truly disgraceful."
Your implication that the the actions of a "different generation" have no relationship to those of the current generation is both ahistorical and, frankly, obtuse. No serious individual would, or should, blame the current generation for the actions of past generations (note the plural). At the same time, I'm not sure how a thoughtful and honest individual can assert that the actions of past generations (again, note the plural) did not arise from a cultural context that is wholly unrelated to that of the present day. That's what I'm doing--considering Germany's current behavior in the context of its unfolding history. It's a history characterized, since Bismark, by the overriding desire to control Europe.
One might argue as to whether or not such a desire is "proper." I have a difficult time imagining how one could consider a contextual examination of German policies to be "improper."
But I guess you do. It's a big world.
In other words, let's not talk about that past if it makes people uncomfortable? (I assume you're not referring to the past itself, which was, I'm sure you'd agree, beyond "extremely bad taste.").
This reminds me of something Hitler was reported to have said when asked whether posterity might judge Germany harshly for the Holocaust: "Who remembers the Armenians?"
Actually, what "isn't even funny" are the easy parallels between the current cast of characters and those in bygone eras of "extremely bad taste." For example, Sarkozy and Vichy...the Eurozone and Gro�deutsches Reich...England, standing alone.
But I don't want to get didactic here.
Oh, I get it. You're German, right?
I'm the son of a German girl who was orphaned after her Lutheran parents were sent to Dachau for hiding a Jewish family in their attic. Still with me?
what makes this even more ridiculous is you don't even seem to get my point and are actually trying to debate this. this thread is about a stupid little tax that germany coincedentally is backing, as is france and a few other misguided european and possibly south american nations, not about mass murder.
you're entitled to your own opinion, as am i. what i am calling you out on is the apparent need to stuff your, let's say, controversial views in a thread on something that has nothing to do with what this thread should be about. if you really think the ftt is some sort of a mass-conspiracy of the evil germans to try to destroy other's countries competitive advantages, you're far beyond being able for me to convince you otherwise. we could go on for a few days debating this, drift farther and farther away from the original topic, perhaps start calling eachother names along the way and at the end nothing would have changed.
expressing your out-there personal views, which again are controversial to say the least, won't help stop the ftt in any way, it'll only alienate people who think completely differently on this subject, again refuse to be affiliated with people that do, but still oppose the ftt just as much as you do.
and no i'm not german actually (and i don't feel the need to share what camps my grandparents have been in as this is a FTT-thread on a financial trading forum ffs).
BDO warning that transaction tax could be forced on all states
BDO has warned that the European Commission could force the financial transaction tax on all member states, including the UK, by changing it from a tax to a charge.
BDO partner and head of financial services Tim Kirk says member states would not be able to veto the FTT if it is positioned as a charge. He says: âThe FTT could be driven through for all 27 member states as a transaction charge so it is not a tax and not subject to a veto. The Commission finds ways to get the things it wants.
Quote from bjw:
if you really think the ftt is some sort of a mass-conspiracy of the evil germans to try to destroy other's countries competitive advantages, you're far beyond being able for me to convince you otherwise.
Never said Germans were evil (although, yes, Germany has perpetrated evil--is this a controversial statement?), and I don't know what you mean by "mass conspiracy" (again, a phrase I didn't use). But...
Perhaps 80% of the proposed EU FTT would be paid by the UK, which is heavily dependent on financial services at the moment. I don't think Angela Merkel is oblivious to this. So, yes, given Germany's competitive history with Britain, I don't consider it a reach to see FTT as a tool of German one-upmanship.
History matters, even when (perhaps especially when) it's uncomfortable to acknowledge. It's only with an historical consciousness that we can see history's "chart patterns" emerging at the "hard right edge" of events.
Again, returning to the "evil" Germans and "mass conspiracy"...Kindly refrain from mischaracterizing my assertions. I've chosen my words carefully. Read them or ignore them. But don't misquote them. It only sends things off track.
Quote from tortoise:
Perhaps 80% of the proposed EU FTT would be paid by the UK, which is heavily dependent on financial services at the moment.
true. that's why the UK is having none of it and won't implement it. good for them. if all of this was a deliberate germany strategy to shut down the uk, it was a pretty idiotic strategy as it was quite obvious from the start the uk would simply reject the measure as they've now done.