GordonTheGekko
Guest
So did Obama vote no at G20 summit?
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
1/4% Tax on all stock trades pushed in NY Times today
- Thread starter seasideheights
- Start date
I doubt there was a formal vote. Ten of the G20 nations have already said "no" to the FTT: the US, Canada, Mexico, the UK, Australia, China, India, Russia, Saudi Arabia and South Korea. Several other countries (e.g. Brazil and Argentina) indicate only conditional support. The most they would get is 7 or 8 votes in favor of the FTT. The last thing Sarkozy or Merkel would want is a formal vote. That would only serve to memorialize their defeat.
Quote from GordonTheGekko:
So did Obama vote no at G20 summit?
Quote from tomdavis:
I doubt there was a formal vote. Ten of the G20 nations have already said "no" to the FTT: the US, Canada, Mexico, the UK, Australia, China, India, Russia, Saudi Arabia and South Korea. Several other countries (e.g. Brazil and Argentina) indicate only conditional support. The most they would get is 7 or 8 votes in favor of the FTT. The last thing Sarkozy or Merkel would want is a formal vote. That would only serve to memorialize their defeat.
In addition to those ten, Japan said at this G20 that it would need to know more before it decides, and I'm pretty sure Italy has expressed reservations about capital flight in the past.
Here is the part of Bill Gates' G20 report that outlines his support for a FTT (pg. 13 of the report at www_gatesfoundation.org/g20/Documents/g20-report-english.pdf). It would be a good idea to figure out where he gets his numbers from.
There has been a lot of discussion lately about introducing new financial sector taxes to raise revenue for various purposes, as well as to discourage excessive risk-taking. Ideas include taxes on financial assets, combined profits and remuneration, and financial transactions. A financial transaction tax (FTT) has been widely advocated as a good way of raising additional resources for development.
FTTs already exist in many countries, where they generate significant revenue, so they are clearly technically feasible. According to the IMF, 15 G20 countries have some form of securities transaction tax. In the seven countries where the IMF estimates revenue, these taxes raise an estimated $15 billion per year.
The general recommendation for an efficient tax is a low rate on a large base. This broadly holds true for FTTs as well. Across different instruments, the tax could be sized to reduce potential economic distortions, so that the tax on equities would be slightly higher than the tax on long-dated bonds, short-dated bonds, swaps, and futures.
Some modeling suggests that even a small tax of 10 basis points on equities and two basis points on bonds would yield about $48 billion on a G20-wide basis, or $9 billion if it were confined to larger European economies. Other FTT proposals offer substantially larger estimates, in the $100 billion to $250 billion range, especially if derivatives are included.
The G20 countries will continue discussing the FTT. For those that choose to adopt it, I urge you not to use all of the proceeds as general revenue. It is critical that a portion of the money raised be reserved for investments in development.
In Thailand there is a 7% Value Added Tax on the all-in amount you pay the broker.
The all-in amount for online trading is typically 0.15% of transaction value each way, so with tax it comes to 0.321% gross for the round trip.
That is pretty high compared to what we pay to trade futures on US Exchanges.
I used to swing trade off daily charts so when you make 5% or more per trade, covering this even with a 50% win ratio is not an issue.
It does get expensive when you day trade or scalp.
The all-in amount for online trading is typically 0.15% of transaction value each way, so with tax it comes to 0.321% gross for the round trip.
That is pretty high compared to what we pay to trade futures on US Exchanges.
I used to swing trade off daily charts so when you make 5% or more per trade, covering this even with a 50% win ratio is not an issue.
It does get expensive when you day trade or scalp.
The section on the FTT is devoid of any real economic research. It alludes to general concepts and refers to current transactions taxes but conveniently neglects the hard facts and data that's available.
For example, the Gates Report fails to mention that the EU FTT "Impact Assessment Report" shows that the tax will contract GDP, cause unemployment and actually end up being a net loss when decreased economic activity and lost income taxes are factored into the equation. As another example, the report fails to clarify that most countries that curently have FTTs also have numerous exemptions and often multiple ways to avoid the taxes.
It's clear that very little real analytical effort went into the Gates Report as regards the FTT. It's just another puff piece to support Gates' personal agenda.
For example, the Gates Report fails to mention that the EU FTT "Impact Assessment Report" shows that the tax will contract GDP, cause unemployment and actually end up being a net loss when decreased economic activity and lost income taxes are factored into the equation. As another example, the report fails to clarify that most countries that curently have FTTs also have numerous exemptions and often multiple ways to avoid the taxes.
It's clear that very little real analytical effort went into the Gates Report as regards the FTT. It's just another puff piece to support Gates' personal agenda.
Quote from TPCS:
Here is the part of Bill Gates' G20 report that outlines his support for a FTT (pg. 13 of the report at www_gatesfoundation.org/g20/Documents/g20-report-english.pdf). It would be a good idea to figure out where he gets his numbers from.
Quote from Explorer:
In addition to those ten, Japan said at this G20 that it would need to know more before it decides, and I'm pretty sure Italy has expressed reservations about capital flight in the past.
Also add Indonesia to the nos:-
Financial transaction tax that requires financial transactions (in banks, stocks and bonds) to be taxed. Indonesia opposes the plan as it is still developing its banking intermediary function and retail investorsâ interest in investing in debt and capital markets
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2011/10/18/ri-healthy-despite-worsening-global-economy-g20.html
Thanks. I'll add it to the list. That makes 11 of the G-20 against, and 4 leaning against or at least not ready to commit support to the FTT. That means there are only 5 G20 members fully committed to the FTT.
Quote from Explorer:
Also add Indonesia to the nos:-
Financial transaction tax that requires financial transactions (in banks, stocks and bonds) to be taxed. Indonesia opposes the plan as it is still developing its banking intermediary function and retail investorsâ interest in investing in debt and capital markets
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2011/10/18/ri-healthy-despite-worsening-global-economy-g20.html
A theme we should had the pro-tax people with is if the tax is so tiny then why do they say it'll collect so much money? Something collecting massive sums of money isn't tiny.