You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
1/4% Tax on all stock trades pushed in NY Times today
- Thread starter seasideheights
- Start date
Quote from Rascal2:
I say Strauss-Kahn's opinion from November is the real deal. You see that he clearly has a clue what a tt really means. Everything else is just noise.
The mob needs to be fed and told what it wants to hear.
.....................................
That's right....
COMMON SENSE tells you this.....
I still say would it not be better to position traders in a consortium like status such that US EURO IMF POLYS would be 1000% forever out of our picture ?
I think that this should be under serious consideration by the trading community....
In the name of efficiency....this should be best for all parties....
ie. If a company wants capital...it knows it's all about Switzerland....
.........................................................................
Will more financial efficiency create more innovation ?
Absolutely !!!!!!!!!!!
...........................................................
Another point being this could happen very quickly....
Quote from rsikit:
This was good news in Novemeber when it came out but since then they have rethought there words and are looking at the tax. Who knows if its just trying to appease people by saying they are going to look at the tax when clearly the do not support it but we shall find out in April.
When you read all these articles online and you see and hear that some big countries like Germany and England are actually pro FTT and all the stupidity that comes out of the mouth of these politicians than you get a "little" worried. But when you take a deep breath and your mind becomes clear again than you are starting to think that as long as (modern) men exists the most important things have always been and I think will always be money and power. And with money you can buy power. So I think world peace is easier to achieve than all G20 countries agreeing over and imposing a FTT. This doesnt mean we have to stop fighting against this ridiculous tax but we also have to keep seeing everything in the right perspective.
Quote from The Dutchman:
When you read all these articles online and you see and hear that some big countries like Germany and England are actually pro FTT and all the stupidity that comes out of the mouth of these politicians than you get a "little" worried. But when you take a deep breath and your mind becomes clear again than you are starting to think that as long as (modern) men exists the most important things have always been and I think will always be money and power. And with money you can buy power. So I think world peace is easier to achieve than all G20 countries agreeing over and imposing a FTT. This doesnt mean we have to stop fighting against this ridiculous tax but we also have to keep seeing everything in the right perspective.
Furthermore, when countries with the most to lose look into it deeper they will find non G20 counties pose as much of a threat if not more of taking transaction business.
With that being said, we are dealing with politicians here so the threat is still very real.
The UK seems desperate now to avoid a credit downgrade spreading around the EU (Spain and Greece) after total meltdowns in Ireland, and Iceland last year. Desperation leads to frantic politics, especially with an election around the corner, which they are still expected to lose.
As expected, UK PM Brown and Treasury Darling are really socking it to the bankers, to deflect voter anger when they start to seriously cut spending to avoid a budget catastrophe over the next 6 months going into their election (with weakness). They are in worse shape fiscally than we are in the US and their banks are not paying back bank bailouts the way our banks are in the US. Their move for the bank bonus tax is not that unexpected considering their dire political circumstances.
I expect UK-based banks to counter that move by not paying year-end bonuses to avoid the onerous 50% bonus tax, which is probably the intention of the government too. This dampens down voter anger. But the downside is it will reduce tax revenues further, since without bonus payments, the government also wonât collect the regular income tax revenues on regular annual banker bonuses (which are probably already in their budget too).
Back on our side of the pond, our New York Dem. Governor Patterson understands the clear message stated in our Petition http://www.rallycongress.com/greentradertax-traders-association1/, to allow for regular bonus payments so the government can collect their regular share of income tax revenues. The NYS and city budget includes millions of dollars in spending, which was approved based on the expectation of collecting income taxes based on higher Wall Street compensation. Wall Street supports NYC and NYS. Not having bonus-related tax collections because of no profits is one thing, but government officialsâ stopping these bonuses to please angry voters is irresponsible. Government leadership calls for calming angry constituents with reason, and not just placating them by cutting off bankers heads.
Kudos to Gov. Patterson for doing what we asked for, to have leading NYS and NYC government officials publicly thank Wall Street and defend them from populist outrage http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/10/nyregion/10paterson.html?_r=1. The NYS Congressman Rep. Mike McMahon (D-N.Y.) (and Maloney D-NY and an IL Congressman too) also did this same thing first last week in saying the financial-transaction tax was a bad idea. Senator Chuck Schumer has said no to the transaction tax but not in his usual forceful and compelling voice. We need him to scream it from the top of the Empire State building like King Kong. Same goes for Senators from IL too.
Itâs time to choose which side you are on, to paraphrase the call from the left in the media this past week. Either you support America and our leadership in financial services or you donât.
I know our VP Joe Biden also supports financial services because through his hard work as Senator of Delaware the credit card industry moved to DE to be protected by his favorable DE laws.
Back to the UK side of the pond. Tory PM Candidate Cameron said okay to the banker bonus tax, so this is really out of control in the UK. As the UK suffers through the winter of recession, they just couldnât have bonus boys and girls partying all night in London, while others freeze through cold winter nights. I guess I understand. The main thing is for the Tories to retreat from this battle and win the war, the early 2010 elections.
Sorry to say, but itâs coming down to raw politics and regime change in the UK and US. We need the Tories to win in the UK and say no to the French torch carriers of a financial-transaction tax and global sovereignty. The French dreamed up the EU and convinced the Germans and others to join. Of course French President Sarkozy is supporting PM Brown on this riot-act in todayâs WSJ http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704240504574585894254931438.html#articleTabs=article Now the French advocate global sovereignty on a new global tax to pay for climate control and much more. Once you pass a small tax, it can only grow along with global sovereignty.
For this reason, itâs now clear to me that our best hope in America is for regime change too, for Republicans to take back control of Congress in 2010, and the Presidency in 2012. The progressive Democratic agenda has a fire in its belly and the media will pile on. The financial-transaction tax will continue its hot media pace through next year and we will all spend countless days and nights trying to put out those fires. I donât trust Congressional leadership (Pelosi, Hoyer, and Reid) because they have punted to global consensus throughout this fight and they probably will fall in lock-step with the Euros later on too.
Hopefully, Secretary Geithner can fight off the progressive Democrats and not make regime change a strict requirement (for those that like to lean Democrat). Letâs see how strong he is over the next 6 months. While President Obama prances around the world to collect his European medals and make speeches of global cooperation, I hope he does not lose sight of Americaâs interests. Thereâs an old Jewish banker family saying in the UK â which I read in books about the famous Rothschild and Warburg banking families - âlook British, sound British, but think Yiddish.â Well, just replace that last word with think American!
As expected, UK PM Brown and Treasury Darling are really socking it to the bankers, to deflect voter anger when they start to seriously cut spending to avoid a budget catastrophe over the next 6 months going into their election (with weakness). They are in worse shape fiscally than we are in the US and their banks are not paying back bank bailouts the way our banks are in the US. Their move for the bank bonus tax is not that unexpected considering their dire political circumstances.
I expect UK-based banks to counter that move by not paying year-end bonuses to avoid the onerous 50% bonus tax, which is probably the intention of the government too. This dampens down voter anger. But the downside is it will reduce tax revenues further, since without bonus payments, the government also wonât collect the regular income tax revenues on regular annual banker bonuses (which are probably already in their budget too).
Back on our side of the pond, our New York Dem. Governor Patterson understands the clear message stated in our Petition http://www.rallycongress.com/greentradertax-traders-association1/, to allow for regular bonus payments so the government can collect their regular share of income tax revenues. The NYS and city budget includes millions of dollars in spending, which was approved based on the expectation of collecting income taxes based on higher Wall Street compensation. Wall Street supports NYC and NYS. Not having bonus-related tax collections because of no profits is one thing, but government officialsâ stopping these bonuses to please angry voters is irresponsible. Government leadership calls for calming angry constituents with reason, and not just placating them by cutting off bankers heads.
Kudos to Gov. Patterson for doing what we asked for, to have leading NYS and NYC government officials publicly thank Wall Street and defend them from populist outrage http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/10/nyregion/10paterson.html?_r=1. The NYS Congressman Rep. Mike McMahon (D-N.Y.) (and Maloney D-NY and an IL Congressman too) also did this same thing first last week in saying the financial-transaction tax was a bad idea. Senator Chuck Schumer has said no to the transaction tax but not in his usual forceful and compelling voice. We need him to scream it from the top of the Empire State building like King Kong. Same goes for Senators from IL too.
Itâs time to choose which side you are on, to paraphrase the call from the left in the media this past week. Either you support America and our leadership in financial services or you donât.
I know our VP Joe Biden also supports financial services because through his hard work as Senator of Delaware the credit card industry moved to DE to be protected by his favorable DE laws.
Back to the UK side of the pond. Tory PM Candidate Cameron said okay to the banker bonus tax, so this is really out of control in the UK. As the UK suffers through the winter of recession, they just couldnât have bonus boys and girls partying all night in London, while others freeze through cold winter nights. I guess I understand. The main thing is for the Tories to retreat from this battle and win the war, the early 2010 elections.
Sorry to say, but itâs coming down to raw politics and regime change in the UK and US. We need the Tories to win in the UK and say no to the French torch carriers of a financial-transaction tax and global sovereignty. The French dreamed up the EU and convinced the Germans and others to join. Of course French President Sarkozy is supporting PM Brown on this riot-act in todayâs WSJ http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704240504574585894254931438.html#articleTabs=article Now the French advocate global sovereignty on a new global tax to pay for climate control and much more. Once you pass a small tax, it can only grow along with global sovereignty.
For this reason, itâs now clear to me that our best hope in America is for regime change too, for Republicans to take back control of Congress in 2010, and the Presidency in 2012. The progressive Democratic agenda has a fire in its belly and the media will pile on. The financial-transaction tax will continue its hot media pace through next year and we will all spend countless days and nights trying to put out those fires. I donât trust Congressional leadership (Pelosi, Hoyer, and Reid) because they have punted to global consensus throughout this fight and they probably will fall in lock-step with the Euros later on too.
Hopefully, Secretary Geithner can fight off the progressive Democrats and not make regime change a strict requirement (for those that like to lean Democrat). Letâs see how strong he is over the next 6 months. While President Obama prances around the world to collect his European medals and make speeches of global cooperation, I hope he does not lose sight of Americaâs interests. Thereâs an old Jewish banker family saying in the UK â which I read in books about the famous Rothschild and Warburg banking families - âlook British, sound British, but think Yiddish.â Well, just replace that last word with think American!
Goldman Sachs execs won't get 2009 Cash bonus:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091210/ap_on_bi_ge/us_goldman_sachs_bonuses
"NEW YORK â Goldman Sachs Group Inc.'s top executives will not receive cash bonuses this year, as the Wall Street giant bows to sharp criticism over its pay practices.
The executives will instead receive stock that cannot be sold for at least five years, the New York-based bank said Thursday."
Maybe this will help calm down the populist outrage...
-Guru
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091210/ap_on_bi_ge/us_goldman_sachs_bonuses
"NEW YORK â Goldman Sachs Group Inc.'s top executives will not receive cash bonuses this year, as the Wall Street giant bows to sharp criticism over its pay practices.
The executives will instead receive stock that cannot be sold for at least five years, the New York-based bank said Thursday."
Maybe this will help calm down the populist outrage...
-Guru
I have a question for the thread regarding legislation in Germany and Britain.
Merkel says she's in favor of a TT while the German development minister recently came out and said "There will therefore be no tax in the course of this term in office."
My question is - how would this become law in Germany? Does Merkel have the power to just sign this into law? Or would it have to be voted in (like in the US)?
Also what about Britain? Would it have to go through legislative channels there just like the US?
If the G20 were to vote in favor of this I think the US would still have to have Congress pass this...
Any input?
-Guru
Merkel says she's in favor of a TT while the German development minister recently came out and said "There will therefore be no tax in the course of this term in office."
My question is - how would this become law in Germany? Does Merkel have the power to just sign this into law? Or would it have to be voted in (like in the US)?
Also what about Britain? Would it have to go through legislative channels there just like the US?
If the G20 were to vote in favor of this I think the US would still have to have Congress pass this...
Any input?
-Guru
Quote from listedguru:
I have a question for the thread regarding legislation in Germany and Britain.
Merkel says she's in favor of a TT while the German development minister recently came out and said "There will therefore be no tax in the course of this term in office."
My question is - how would this become law in Germany? Does Merkel have the power to just sign this into law? Or would it have to be voted in (like in the US)?
Also what about Britain? Would it have to go through legislative channels there just like the US?
If the G20 were to vote in favor of this I think the US would still have to have Congress pass this...
Any input?
-Guru
Not sure about other countries but no matter what the US congress would have to vote for it. Just like one of the US SENS said about warning Obama not to make any political decisions in Copenhagen for the climate meeting becuase he doesnt make that law congress does and they would not want him to get embarassed at promising something he cannot deliver.
Brown in Wonderland
By Andrew Hill
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/70449316-e5ae-11de-b5d7-00144feab49a.html
Angela Merkelâs characterisation of a tax on bankersâ bonuses as âa charming ideaâ makes it sound as though Gordon Brown has just proposed a sleigh-ride in the Black Forest. In fact, what the British prime minister is trying to persuade his G20 partners to join is more like a bandwagon. Nicolas Sarkozy is on board; now the German chancellor is wondering whether to join the trip.
More interesting, however, is the other half of Mrs Merkelâs comment â to wit, her countryâs support for the âmore sustainableâ idea of an international tax on financial transactions. This is a version of the Tobin tax, also raised on Thursday in a debating paper from the UK Treasury about how to balance the risks, rewards and responsibilities of the financial sector and society.
Coming the day after the raid on bankersâ incentive payments, the return of the Tobin tax proposal looks like a brutal one-two assault on the City. For electoral purposes, not only is the government tough on bonuses, it is tough on the causes of bonuses.
But a Tobin tax is one of Mr Brownâs more quixotic campaigns. As the Treasury points out in its paper, such a levy on financial transactions âmust have the commitment of all the major international financial centres in order to workâ. Thatâs true: like the misconceived bonus tax, such a levy would risk driving business away from the City, if applied only by the UK. More surprising is the Treasuryâs contention that âsuch co-ordination may now be more likelyâ. What makes it think that? The US and others slapped the British premier down when he unexpectedly raised the Tobin tax idea at last monthâs G20 summit in St Andrews. Apart from Mrs Merkel and Mr Sarkozy, the consensus remains that the logistical hurdles to applying such a tax worldwide would be huge and its benefits uncertain.
The Treasury may simply be supplying the theoretical logic for a Tobin tax, following the prime ministerâs embarrassment at St Andrews. The UKâs real hope may be to draw attention to more workable ideas to curb global systemic risk, such as a rescue fund supported by a levy on financial institutions. Either that, or Mr Brown and his unlikely European chums are heading off alone into a winter wonderland.
By Andrew Hill
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/70449316-e5ae-11de-b5d7-00144feab49a.html
Angela Merkelâs characterisation of a tax on bankersâ bonuses as âa charming ideaâ makes it sound as though Gordon Brown has just proposed a sleigh-ride in the Black Forest. In fact, what the British prime minister is trying to persuade his G20 partners to join is more like a bandwagon. Nicolas Sarkozy is on board; now the German chancellor is wondering whether to join the trip.
More interesting, however, is the other half of Mrs Merkelâs comment â to wit, her countryâs support for the âmore sustainableâ idea of an international tax on financial transactions. This is a version of the Tobin tax, also raised on Thursday in a debating paper from the UK Treasury about how to balance the risks, rewards and responsibilities of the financial sector and society.
Coming the day after the raid on bankersâ incentive payments, the return of the Tobin tax proposal looks like a brutal one-two assault on the City. For electoral purposes, not only is the government tough on bonuses, it is tough on the causes of bonuses.
But a Tobin tax is one of Mr Brownâs more quixotic campaigns. As the Treasury points out in its paper, such a levy on financial transactions âmust have the commitment of all the major international financial centres in order to workâ. Thatâs true: like the misconceived bonus tax, such a levy would risk driving business away from the City, if applied only by the UK. More surprising is the Treasuryâs contention that âsuch co-ordination may now be more likelyâ. What makes it think that? The US and others slapped the British premier down when he unexpectedly raised the Tobin tax idea at last monthâs G20 summit in St Andrews. Apart from Mrs Merkel and Mr Sarkozy, the consensus remains that the logistical hurdles to applying such a tax worldwide would be huge and its benefits uncertain.
The Treasury may simply be supplying the theoretical logic for a Tobin tax, following the prime ministerâs embarrassment at St Andrews. The UKâs real hope may be to draw attention to more workable ideas to curb global systemic risk, such as a rescue fund supported by a levy on financial institutions. Either that, or Mr Brown and his unlikely European chums are heading off alone into a winter wonderland.
Quote from libertad:
...............................
I know this....
They have to look at it....
And when they get to the market making function....
What has to happen ?
What conclusions are possible ?
I can do this on the back of an envelope....
Who needs a committee etc ?
...........................................................................
Still what I am saying is that if all traders form a consortium....we could take all the business to the country that wants it the most....
Preferably Switzerland....
Hedge fund managers are already leaving London to Switzerland....
......................................................
I would love this....
You want to invest, trade, or go public ....be public ....raise capital ?
Then it has to be Switzerland.....
The trading consortium would control the game....not some bullshit politician....
Never again this political populist ploy by the non qualifieds....
Why let the POLYS threaten your livlihood....your children....your family.....your rights....?
.............................................................
I can tell you beyond the shadow of a doubt .....that if a TT is enacted....the very Banks that will make the markets will avoid the TT ....or else there will be no market....
Do the math....
MM's will get a windfall due to a bigger spread between bid and ask. They may also get an exemption from this tax due to their market making functions.
What many day-traders, esp the scalpers, are playing some kind of market making function, reducing hte spread between bid and ask.