1/4% Tax on all stock trades pushed in NY Times today

Quote from FutsTrader111:

$2.3 trillion dollar a day [..] These are "hard" numbers.
... but "soft" location measures ;) just repeat this analysis replacing arithmetic mean with median - it might change the outcome a bit. After all, volume is a heavily skewed distribution... and avoid nesting averages and combining them with sums or products - results can be path dependent ;)

Here is some benchmark data for comparison:
- "NYSE, NYSE Arca and NYSE Amex ('NYSE Group') U.S. cash products handled ADV .." [average daily volume] ".. of 2.9 billion shares in October 2009 [..]" [1]
- "NYSE Group matched share of all U.S. equity volume in October 2009 was 28.1%,"[1]
- "Average daily stock volume is more than 1.6 billion, with an average dollar value of $55 billion." [2]

I appreciate your approach to tax rate reduction... but before you come up with a similarly staggering revelation for derivatives, to mend regulators in their ways ;) here's a little quote from a slightly more experienced researcher:

"a tax on futures markets will not achieve any important social objective and will not generate much revenue." [3]

Ditto for Forex:

"a tax on transactions in foreign exchange markets imposed unilaterally, 6/1000 of a basis point (or 0.00006%) is a realistic maximum magnitude.[4] Assuming that the rate of 0.00006% causes no reduction of trading volume, the tax on foreign currency exchange transactions would yield just $4.3 billion a year, despite an annual turnover in dozens of trillion dollars.[5]

_____
[1] NYSE Euronext Announces Trading Volumes for October 2009, URL : http://www.nyse.com/press/1257419178714.html
[2] New York Stock Exchange: Definition from Answers.com, URL: http://www.answers.com/topic/new-york-stock-exchange-economics
[3] Edwards, Franklin R. (1993). Taxing transactions in futures markets: Objectives and effects. Journal of Financial Services Research 7(1), 75-91.
[4] Garber, Peter M. (1996). "Issues of Enforcement and Evasion in a Tax on Foreign Exchange Transactions,” in: The Tobin Tax: Coping with Financial Volatility. Mahbub ul Haq, Inge Kaul, and Isabelle Grunberg, eds. (New York, Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1996), p. 135.
[5] Shvedov, Maxim (2004). Transaction Tax: General Overview. CRS Report for Congress, Order Code RL32266, p. 7.
 
cramer still backtracking

Why do i have to oppose this tax with my last breath? I am saving that breath to maintain the low levels of dividend and capital gains tax that i stuck my neck out and campaigned for endlessly,. Did anyone here help me do that? Tim? Rev? Were you on board? Also, unlike everyone else on this site, I only trade for charity and have given away millions. I don't want that tax crimping my charitable giving. I am, simply saying, that i am not going to make this my stand in life. I will leave that to others. Why dont you attack those who are pushing for it? Aren't they fairer game? Do any of you ever ask yourselves why i put up with this nonsense? If you have an answer let me know. I am curious... cause some of you have truly made this exercise unpalatable for me.

http://www.thestreet.com/p/_columnstconver/dps/cc/columnistconversation1.html
 
I'm a British and I am so so sorry about Gordon F***ing Brown.

He was never ever voted in to office by the British electorate, rather he assumed the mantle of leadership from Blair, our nation is now up to its eyeballs in debt as a result of his taxing period of Chancellorship, our currency is a piece of shit and that whole show of him sucking up to Barack Obama earlier this year was excruciating...

Do not underestimate the ability of this man to push through such as disasterous tax. He is a very skilful conman and will be desperate to 'achieve something' before he is voted out when the British public finally get a chance to vote on him in May 2010. Unfortunately we have to wait for another six months because he has had never had the backbone to face a democratic vote regarding his leadership.

:mad:
 
Quote from ksharmon:

cramer still backtracking

... Also, unlike everyone else on this site, I only trade for charity and have given away millions. ...


That's exactly the point.

He only trades for charity.

We trade for our livelihoods.
 
Quote from seasideheights:

That's exactly the point.

He only trades for charity.

We trade for our livelihoods.

Anyone got a history of Cramers trades for the last couple of years? Why don't we apply the transaction tax to his record for several years and see how it comes out?

This guy is so dupicitous he should have been a politician.

OldTrader
 
Quote from seasideheights:

That's exactly the point.

He only trades for charity.

We trade for our livelihoods.


He easily forgets how he made his millions as a trader. I would like to keep reminding/commenting on his site, but I don't want him to give this to much airtime next week on cnbc!
 
New York Times, Taxing the Speculators Nov. 26, 2009 Paul Krugman.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/27/opinion/27krugman.html

Krugman started his article, “Should we use taxes to deter financial speculation? Yes, say top British officials, who oversee the City of London, one of the world’s two great banking centers. Other European governments agree — and they’re right.” …”Adair Turner, Britain’s top financial regulator, called for a tax on financial transactions as a way to discourage “socially useless” activities.”

I say No, we should not tax speculation, because it’s not a “useless activity”, as explained below. Plus, Krugman is only telling half the story from the UK and Europe, which like the US is leaning towards a less-harmful and more efficient bank levy (over a shotgun-approach financial-transaction tax).

Here’s Wikipedia on Speculation versus Investment. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speculation#Investment_vs._Speculation. “The economic benefits of speculation. The well known speculator Victor Niederhoffer, in "The Speculator as Hero"[4] describes the benefits of speculation:”

“Let's consider some of the principles that explain the causes of shortages and surpluses and the role of speculators. When a harvest is too small to satisfy consumption at its normal rate, speculators come in, hoping to profit from the scarcity by buying. Their purchases raise the price, thereby checking consumption so that the smaller supply will last longer. Producers encouraged by the high price further lessen the shortage by growing or importing to reduce the shortage. On the other side, when the price is higher than the speculators think the facts warrant, they sell. This reduces prices, encouraging consumption and exports and helping to reduce the surplus.
Another service provided by speculators to a market is that by risking their own capital in the hope of profit, they add liquidity to the market and make it easier for others to offset risk, including those who may be classified as hedgers and arbitrageurs.

If a certain market—for example, pork bellies—had no speculators, then only producers (hog farmers) and consumers (butchers, etc.) would participate in that market. With fewer players in the market, there would be a larger spread between the current bid and ask price of pork bellies. Any new entrant in the market who wants to either buy or sell pork bellies would be forced to accept an illiquid market and market prices that have a large bid-ask spread or might even find it difficult to find a co-party to buy or sell to. A speculator (e.g. a pork dealer) may exploit the difference in the spread and, in competition with other speculators, reduce the spread, thus creating a more efficient market.”

Green’s comments: In the above Wikipedia description, the speculator sounds very useful to society in my view. Plus, useful to him too, which is true altruism in an Ayn Rand individualist society (which is America’s true backbone). Socialists and communists like to diminish the individual for the benefit of society.

We live in a highly-specialized world, where we all depend on trading our goods and services. To widen supply and demand markets beyond our local communities requires financial markets, financial products, money and credit. The financial system itself becomes almost as important as the goods and services and consumers. Is any one of us ready to go back to a barter system? Without all those derivatives and credit default swaps, bankers never could have financed the government’s directive to give mortgages to sub-prime borrowers, with zero down payments too boot.

Part II next....
 
Take the media and many writers with a grain of salt. Many of them are sour grapes about the new economy, including the more modernized financial markets. Long-established broadcast and print media are dependent on their old ways and they have been forestalling and fighting new media and new banking too. Should we be taking economic and business lessons from the New York Times? Don’t they kill trees to delivery their news on carbon-emitting trucks? The Times built a real-estate tower in NYC to match their ego, but they couldn’t afford it. Like others who can’t pay back their bankers for overindulged real estate spending, the Times is contributing to an effort to tar and feather the bankers instead. That’s classic populist anger and undermines their credibility in mounting progressive arguments and editorials.

The same goes for the Washington Post with Steven Pearlstein’s article yesterday. Washington Post, "Whose side is Obama on?" Nov. 25, 2009 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/24/AR2009112404014.html. Green's Comment is at the bottom. I think bankers have cut off these newspapers and they are being forced to downsize and close bureaus (WP did this week). Their writers are angry at bankers in my view and that is creeping into their opinions.

Krugman like others in the media are big tax and spend economists, supporting big tax and spend politicians. Krugman has been dogging President Obama for not passing a larger stimulus plan and Stimulus II, and not increasing government spending. Krugman’s attacks hurt supply side economics because he attacks suppliers and their financiers, plus the investors and speculators too. Krugman thinks that government jobs will turn around the economy, but I disagree. Then the only way to pay Krugman’s bill on society is with new taxes and raising taxes on the rich, Wall Street, bankers and traders in general. Economists should be like journalists used to be, neutral in politics. Of course, the other side of the debate is equally steeped in their ways too.

Back to the “useless to society” argument. Let’s follow Ayn Rand’s advice and call for a strike of bankers, traders and others in the financial system. Plus, ask the New York Times to go on strike too. We will soon see who the public cries out for returning to business, the financers or the print media. Is the print media ready to lend or invest in anyone other than their opinions?

As in America, progressive left-leaning politicians and media (Guardian) are leading the charge against bankers’ in the UK (it’s even worse) and they are flaming populist anger and votes with talk of a transaction tax. UK PM Gordon Brown faces a call for early election and defeat to Tory PM-candidate David Cameron, who is very much against this tax and an attack on London’s the City (bankers). Like most other level-headed economists, media and government officials, including Secretary Geithner, President Obama, leaders in Congress, IMF chief Dominique Strauss-Kahn, David Cameron is advocating a bank levy charged to banks instead. See more on my blog articles below.

Populist anger if left unchecked can cause devastation to our economy and emotions, which is unwise as we try to recover from a recession. Attacking small business traders, big business, bankers, speculators and other useful contributors to our economy, will make those players go into their shell and not lend, not invest, not speculate and turn our fragile recovery into a W-shaped recession.

Can we then count on the media and socialists to lend us money? Their only prescription for lending money is to sell government bonds, even though we can’t afford to pay those bonds back any time soon. By the way, if you really want a financial-transaction tax, how about starting with the biggest short term financier of them all, federal, state and city governments? Slap a sufficiently-high enough tax on those transactions so investors and speculators won’t buy government bonds and the federal government will focus on balancing it’s check book too, like the rest of America. Of course, those bonds will probably be exempt from the politicians’ plans for this tax.

Another thing that annoys me. Only progressive-Democratic Congressmen from non-trading areas are pushing for the transaction tax. For example, our Protest letter http://www.greencompany.com/Association/AssociationFinancialTransTax.shtml is being signed by thousands of traders quickly and it’s odd that not even one letter was sent to Congressman DeFazio’s (OR), who is the main proponent of this tax in the US. That indicates to me that Congressman DeFazio has very few traders in his district. Tax initiatives are similar to environmental initiatives. NIMBY (not in my backyard) is a major problem with environmental initiatives and apparently with taxes too. Congressman and voters demand alternative energy, but when environmental projects are suggested in their home towns, they often block them because of NIMBY. They say the windmills are too loud and ugly. No one wants nuclear or waste-to-energy either. Better to ship the garbage to someone else’s landfill. It’s the same with taxes, raise them on someone else. If DeFazio can lead the charge to pass a financial-transaction tax, he should find some way to raise taxes in his home town too, but he is not.

Traders want to know where we stand here. If rational minds rule, there won’t be a financial-transaction tax and there will be a bank levy instead. But like the financial markets themselves, it’s irrational minds that control things. Populist anger is for real and I truly feel horrible for people that have lost their jobs and businesses that have closed. Few in the world can muster the courage to defend Wall Street and their ongoing ways to make money and pay high compensation. I for one have that courage and won’t throw Wall Street into the Hudson River. You may as well sell Manhattan down the river too and the dominos will fall soon thereafter.

The Times should fire Krugman before President Obama fires Geithner and let’s try to figure our problems out together with less partisanship. Krugman will teach trickle down economics. Burn business and you will be burned too.

Green's Comment on the Washington Post article:
“Retribution” (the main argument in this piece), redistribution, and punishment are negative and unproductive ways to deal with a constituency. When a democratically-elected government is too heavy-handed in that manner, it invites another type of populist revolt (Tea Party movement) to trump the anti-Wall Street/banker populist backlash.

Far too many writers in the established media are inappropriately-disenchanted with Wall Street and bankers, and most unfairly lump small-business traders into that narrow group.

Highly-esteemed writer Pearlstein argues in this piece for a financial-transaction tax for no other good reason than to show that President Obama has populist’s stripes. Pearlstein concedes this tax will cause job destruction not creation. Is this a good enough reason to unleash hurtful collateral damage on our economy?

For sure, small-business traders will be put out of business over night with a financial-transaction tax. Is that fair? To get a better understanding of how dangerous this op-ed piece is (and other writing like it), please see our small-business trader’s appeal to Congress at
http://www.rallycongress.com/greentradertax-traders-association1/ -
“Save traders' jobs: Do not enact a financial-transaction tax.”
Traders, please join us by speaking out to defend your job and business from the government’s tax axe. For more background and articles, please see my blog at http://www.greencompany.com/blog/index.php .

Established broadcast and print media (like WP) are reeling from creative destruction brought on by the Internet, with blogs sharing their space at much lower cost. In my view, some are sour grapes and they are juiced up to attack (Wall Street, bankers, the rich and others that are succeeding). Sorry to see WP closed bureaus yesterday and I hope the bankers did not contribute to that outcome.
 
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