1/4% Tax on all stock trades pushed in NY Times today
- Thread starter seasideheights
- Start date
Problem in logic many of you folks have in saying "it will never pass, as surely they understand capital markets would die and people would go overseas, etc."
have is:
The far left clowns and Dems in congress ALSO had a huge backlash against socialized medicine, which they have fought for since 1948, and NOW in 2009 they are inches from achieving it.
Why?
Because they are ideologues who do not understand or care about financial soundness or logic applied, they only see their agenda of wealth redistribution and power consolidation and wielding.
It is a HUGE error to assume they are reasonable and logical, these people are NOT. They are Globalists. They are also about to spend 2 trillion and borrow and print money to force health care socialization, against all logic, math and monetary soundness, because they do not see the world in the same terms as you do.
You cannot look at them and assume they will do the logical or sane thing, because they are ideologue socialists, and they love this idea at core level.
The public hates Wall Street, would lump all of us together with the true violators and not see the distinctions, and if a famous "trader" like Cramer with everyman name ID is bought off or threatened (already may be happening) and some NAME senator takes up this mantle, it can take off like wild fire.
Sure hope you like long term buy and hold investing, my friends...
have is:
The far left clowns and Dems in congress ALSO had a huge backlash against socialized medicine, which they have fought for since 1948, and NOW in 2009 they are inches from achieving it.
Why?
Because they are ideologues who do not understand or care about financial soundness or logic applied, they only see their agenda of wealth redistribution and power consolidation and wielding.
It is a HUGE error to assume they are reasonable and logical, these people are NOT. They are Globalists. They are also about to spend 2 trillion and borrow and print money to force health care socialization, against all logic, math and monetary soundness, because they do not see the world in the same terms as you do.
You cannot look at them and assume they will do the logical or sane thing, because they are ideologue socialists, and they love this idea at core level.
The public hates Wall Street, would lump all of us together with the true violators and not see the distinctions, and if a famous "trader" like Cramer with everyman name ID is bought off or threatened (already may be happening) and some NAME senator takes up this mantle, it can take off like wild fire.
Sure hope you like long term buy and hold investing, my friends...
It's the same whacko leftists like DeFazio that have been pushing this for years. When they studied it under George H. Bush the strongest lobby against it was the Pension funds. They are the largest players in the financial markets and would be the most effected. It doesn't seem AFL-CIO gets this. its he case in every such tax in history, the market makers would be exempt. So the very firms they are looking to punish would not be paying this tax. Would be insane: If you chopped out .56 cents in the SPY's, you would break even after tax.
Listen, Geithner never said anything about Obama being against this tax, Tim himself is. I'd honestly be quite surprised as Barack has even thought about this for 2 seconds yet because it's not the table yet and that's where we come in, to keep it under the table. I'm very proud of what traders did today with comments on thehill and thestreet and bascially get Cramer to soften and almost reverse his stance. Obviously if Cramer actually received death threats due to this (I think he was joking but who knows) then that's unacceptable but the majority of the responses were great. Will this likely ever pass the senate and become law? No, it's unlikely but guys this is our living we're talking about here, we need to do whatever we can to continue to fight this, if you aren't concerned about this then you obviously don't make enough money trading for you to care if you were no longer able to do it any more.
Keep up the fight guys.
How can possibly anyone believe a tax increase will create jobs (such as Jim Cramer)? Undoubtedly this man must be a fool. There will only be a change from private jobs to government jobs minus the friction costs. Crames talks about "sacrifises" like we're some kind of serfs, he makes me sick.
Lets put things in perspective.
0.25% tax is HUGE when you are taxed on each side of the trade.
For example, a $500,000 investment account can do a maximum of $50,000,000 in liquidity turnover a year ($25,000,000 a side to buy, $25,000,000 a side to sell). This assumes that a participant is fully invested and turns over his equity every three days (3-day holding period).
This is not a tax. This is a "participation" fee.
The idiots who are proposing this bill have NO CLUE about the typical liquidity traders provide to the markets every year.
It is not unreasonable for a $500,000 investment account to turnover $25,000,000 in liquidity a year:
$25,000,000 * 0.25% = $62,500
Read that again. Trading a $500,000 account that does $25,000,000 in liquidity turnover will incur $65,000 in taxes - nearly 13% of your account. Add to that commissions and you are looking at 18-20% for the price of even participating. Take away another 35% for capital gains and you are giving up 50%+ in taxes alone!
And who's money is it? Yours or the governments? Who in their right mind is going to run a business when 50% of your business profits goes to the government!
Traders would be forced to be longer term "investors" to cut down on what is really a "liquidity tax".
But the most important thing is, who the hell is the government to tell me that if my trading/investment objectives are not met say because a stock goes down 5% in 10 minutes that I have to get penalized 0.25% because I was wrong?
It appears the government is trying to eliminate hedge funds, daytraders, short term traders in this country and make mutual funds the only really viable investing instrument for those who cannot afford to do business.
Is the mutual fund industry lobbying behind this? Someone needs to lok into this and call them on it.
Consider also this would all but destroy brokerage firms like Ameritrade, Schwab, ETrade, TradeStation, etc. who rely upon commissions to fuel their business.
Consider also that the $500,000 account belongs to a middle class to upper middle class person. Essentially, this person is asked to not participate in the stock markets and to put it all in mutual funds because the price to participate is too steep.
Is this American capitalism? Or government intervention gone extreme?
0.25% tax is HUGE when you are taxed on each side of the trade.
For example, a $500,000 investment account can do a maximum of $50,000,000 in liquidity turnover a year ($25,000,000 a side to buy, $25,000,000 a side to sell). This assumes that a participant is fully invested and turns over his equity every three days (3-day holding period).
This is not a tax. This is a "participation" fee.
The idiots who are proposing this bill have NO CLUE about the typical liquidity traders provide to the markets every year.
It is not unreasonable for a $500,000 investment account to turnover $25,000,000 in liquidity a year:
$25,000,000 * 0.25% = $62,500
Read that again. Trading a $500,000 account that does $25,000,000 in liquidity turnover will incur $65,000 in taxes - nearly 13% of your account. Add to that commissions and you are looking at 18-20% for the price of even participating. Take away another 35% for capital gains and you are giving up 50%+ in taxes alone!
And who's money is it? Yours or the governments? Who in their right mind is going to run a business when 50% of your business profits goes to the government!
Traders would be forced to be longer term "investors" to cut down on what is really a "liquidity tax".
But the most important thing is, who the hell is the government to tell me that if my trading/investment objectives are not met say because a stock goes down 5% in 10 minutes that I have to get penalized 0.25% because I was wrong?
It appears the government is trying to eliminate hedge funds, daytraders, short term traders in this country and make mutual funds the only really viable investing instrument for those who cannot afford to do business.
Is the mutual fund industry lobbying behind this? Someone needs to lok into this and call them on it.
Consider also this would all but destroy brokerage firms like Ameritrade, Schwab, ETrade, TradeStation, etc. who rely upon commissions to fuel their business.
Consider also that the $500,000 account belongs to a middle class to upper middle class person. Essentially, this person is asked to not participate in the stock markets and to put it all in mutual funds because the price to participate is too steep.
Is this American capitalism? Or government intervention gone extreme?
No. That would be an absolutely absurd thing for any one industry (relatively small) to be pursuing,.
The only "industry" behind this is the government. Period. Tthe statists of both parties, but mostly the controlling one, saw the last election as a mandate to absolutely do whatever the hell they want. The only thing they'll listen to is the next election. And even then that will only be a minor setback in their eyes, until next time.
Just look at how badly healthcare "form" failed under Clinton and where we are now.
To truly bring an end to these idiotic and dangerous attacks on liberty, America needs to rebuild the fabric of two totally corrupted pillars of its society; the so called free press, and academia.
Anything less will result in short victories that will be destined to be reversed by the next wave of statists.
Contact Congress To Not Enact a Financial-Transaction Tax.
Traders, please join us by speaking out to defend your job and business from the government's tax axe.
Kindly click the Rally Congress link below to read and sign the petition.
http://www.rallycongress.com/greentradertax-traders-association1/
Traders, please join us by speaking out to defend your job and business from the government's tax axe.
Kindly click the Rally Congress link below to read and sign the petition.
http://www.rallycongress.com/greentradertax-traders-association1/
Revshark continues to hammer away
Speaking of unemployment, I was a bit shaken by Jim Cramer's support of a tax on trading "if it created new jobs." I doubt any tax has ever created more jobs than it has destroyed, especially when you have the government acting as a middleman and extracting its own pound of flesh.
One of the things many people overlook in the discussion of a tax on trading is how different the market is today than it was before the Internet and all its associated technologies were developed. Trading has been greatly democratized over the years -- now just about anyone can be a trader and earn a living in the market if they have a little capital and are willing to work hard.
Fifteen years ago you had to be live and work in one of the major financial centers if you wanted to be a "real" trader. There was no way someone like me sitting on the beach in Florida or the hills of North Carolina could participate in the market. Now we can all become self-sufficient if we have the desire and inclination to do so.
The Internet made trading an even playing field, and as a result a major industry developed around it to assist the man on the street who wanted to participate in the markets. I know many individuals who now consider trading to be their primary job. They run small businesses that support them and their families, employ people and pay substantial taxes on their profits. Instead of using stock brokers, people now do research on their own using the many sites and tools available on the Internet, which has created productive businesses like TheStreet.com and RealMoney.
When I hear the discussions about a tax on trading, it is clear that the politicians are after the big investment banks like Goldman Sachs or the irresponsible banks that helped to create the subprime crisis. I never hear any talk about how different the world of trading is now and how so many ordinary people look to the market as a way to produce income.
A tax on trading will not only hurt the way the market operates, it will hurt many innocent individuals who never had any responsibility for the excesses of Wall Street in the first play and probably helped the market recover much faster than it would have otherwise.
I hope that those who back a tax on trading figure out that they aren't just going to extract some fees form powerful institutions. They are going to hurt the lives of thousands of people on Main Street.
I'm sure this issue is not going to go away quietly. I will continue to be a persistent and vocal advocate for individual traders who are at risk of becoming victims of short-sighted and ignorant politicians.
http://www.thestreet.com/p/_revblog/rmoney/revsharkblog/10632870.html
Speaking of unemployment, I was a bit shaken by Jim Cramer's support of a tax on trading "if it created new jobs." I doubt any tax has ever created more jobs than it has destroyed, especially when you have the government acting as a middleman and extracting its own pound of flesh.
One of the things many people overlook in the discussion of a tax on trading is how different the market is today than it was before the Internet and all its associated technologies were developed. Trading has been greatly democratized over the years -- now just about anyone can be a trader and earn a living in the market if they have a little capital and are willing to work hard.
Fifteen years ago you had to be live and work in one of the major financial centers if you wanted to be a "real" trader. There was no way someone like me sitting on the beach in Florida or the hills of North Carolina could participate in the market. Now we can all become self-sufficient if we have the desire and inclination to do so.
The Internet made trading an even playing field, and as a result a major industry developed around it to assist the man on the street who wanted to participate in the markets. I know many individuals who now consider trading to be their primary job. They run small businesses that support them and their families, employ people and pay substantial taxes on their profits. Instead of using stock brokers, people now do research on their own using the many sites and tools available on the Internet, which has created productive businesses like TheStreet.com and RealMoney.
When I hear the discussions about a tax on trading, it is clear that the politicians are after the big investment banks like Goldman Sachs or the irresponsible banks that helped to create the subprime crisis. I never hear any talk about how different the world of trading is now and how so many ordinary people look to the market as a way to produce income.
A tax on trading will not only hurt the way the market operates, it will hurt many innocent individuals who never had any responsibility for the excesses of Wall Street in the first play and probably helped the market recover much faster than it would have otherwise.
I hope that those who back a tax on trading figure out that they aren't just going to extract some fees form powerful institutions. They are going to hurt the lives of thousands of people on Main Street.
I'm sure this issue is not going to go away quietly. I will continue to be a persistent and vocal advocate for individual traders who are at risk of becoming victims of short-sighted and ignorant politicians.
http://www.thestreet.com/p/_revblog/rmoney/revsharkblog/10632870.html
The economic mess wasn't caused by the trading of stocks on Wall Street.... this tax is just an easy mark for politicos.
The Progressives don't care about "thousands of people on Main Street". They have an agenda. All they care about is (1) getting more money, and (2) exercising more control over everybody. (This includes the Obamacare/Tyranny bill, just in case you didn't notice.)