1/4% Tax on all stock trades pushed in NY Times today

Quote from Anaconda:



The daytrading mentality is reaching for rationalization as if this would destroy the whole market, but the reality is that the investor is not affected significantly by this rule. Your standard institution is not either. This tax is only significant on the scalping time frame. It renders daytrading on a tiny time frame near impossible, just like it was back in the days before electronic exchange and dirt cheap commissions. Anyone want to look up what it cost your average retail trader to do a roundtrip 30 years ago? Some guys here know from experience.

Think of it this way. What if the exchanges raised their fees back to 1960-1970 levels? You would have the same effects, even on the Big Wall Street firms. Let's say that the Wall Street cronies gang got special pricing, hence giving that edge they used to enjoy. Quickly competition would appear, as technology has made the fees of that size obsolete.

With a tax, you accomplish the same, while rendering possible exchange competition helpless. The exemptions are the exclusive edge.

The big guys are evolving and taking that edge back. At best, the requirements for exemption will be capital intensive with legal & bureaucratic bullshit.

I doubt this would be implemented soon, but it has gotten more juice in the recent years.

Yes, it would be nice for the exchanges (and, yes, I do realize that Merrill and Goldman pretty much own the NYSE because they can threaten to cross trades in house and SIG owns the PHILEX, etc.) to get the spreads and commissions back the way they were before ECNs and commission deregulation drove down cushy, easy profits for them. The thing is, 30 years ago, foreign exchanges weren't providing significant competition to them. Today they are. The price elasticity of demand has increased. So, for every unit increase in transactions costs, there's a decrease in volume as traders simply find something else to trade abroad. Certainly, going to Singapore will be no problem for a pro trader. Retail guys are always screwed no matter what.

Because of this international competition, I don't think the big guys are going to be getting that edge (economic rent) back because if they do it by raising prices, they will lose volume to the competition. The only way they can win is by increasing volume by decreasing price. Already the big guys have cottoned on to this and they're providing locked markets on large trades for a commission instead of the bid/ask spread. No small market making firm can safely make that kind of market. If they add a tax to that, more of those huge trades cross on foreign exchanges and the big guys will lose commission.

If the only guys who are exempt are the big guy and that drives the small guys out of business, then no tax revenue (or virtually no tax revenue) will be collected. The only transactions will be infrequent ones by long term investors and volatility as well as the cost of raising capital for firms will go up as a result - which is how I define "killing the capital markets". Collecting a couple of dollars in tax revenue doesn't seem worth killing the capital markets for. But then....we're talking about government and government is fully capable of so much bullshit that nothing it does amazes me anymore.
 
just to add....

You're wrong that institutions like mutual funds don't care about a tax. A tax is just a cost and they care about all costs - especially if they can easily avoid the cost by trading abroad from their desks in Boston, Chicago and New York. It's almost impossible to tax foreign trades because it's so costly to implement and you need the cooperation of all the individual foreign exchanges.

And smarter retail guys as well as pro traders who trade as customers will also simply do more business on foreign exchanges.

The tax may not kill capital markets in the sense that they won't exist anymore at all, but it will certainly hamper American capital markets and the American economy to the point that America will eventually become the uncompetitive wasteland that Europe was in the 1980's.
 
Quote from Angrycat:

just to add....

It's almost impossible to tax foreign trades because it's so costly to implement and you need the cooperation of all the individual foreign exchanges.

And smarter retail guys as well as pro traders who trade as customers will also simply do more business on foreign exchanges.


Exactly!!! That's why I would switch over to foreign markets if this toilet country of ours imposed this tax.
 
I laughed through this whole post. I must be part of the 10% of traders that are democrats. I wish I could word search this thread for total times the phrase: obama nation, liberals, class warfare, etc. came up. I will remind most of you that you voted for the boy wonder not once but TWO times. I think we have to get some fiscal sanity back in this country. Hard decisions and answers of what we need as a nation and a means to PAY for it. However, you all know a 1/4 tax will NEVER happen. This thread just turned into a conservative mouthpiece manifesto
 
Quote from skylr33:

Quote from Angrycat:

just to add....

It's almost impossible to tax foreign trades because it's so costly to implement and you need the cooperation of all the individual foreign exchanges.

And smarter retail guys as well as pro traders who trade as customers will also simply do more business on foreign exchanges.


Exactly!!! That's why I would switch over to foreign markets if this toilet country of ours imposed this tax.
Well when I first heard of this a few months ago, they said they would tax Americans making foreign trades. There might be some way around it, but could you imagine if they caught up with you after you had been doing it for a few years? Your liability could be huge.

"You owe $10,000,000 in unpaid transaction tax." :eek:
 
Quote from vrtrop22:

I think we have to get some fiscal sanity back in this country.


hahaha, yeah good luck with that.
Obama is going to be worse than Bush in the deficit department
 
Quote from Klamath:

Well when I first heard of this a few months ago, they said they would tax Americans making foreign trades. There might be some way around it, but could you imagine if they caught up with you after you had been doing it for a few years? Your liability could be huge.

"You owe $10,000,000 in unpaid transaction tax." :eek:



I'll just claim ignorance, and say I didn't know I was supposed to pay any taxes. If Obama's Treasury Secretary nominee can get away with it, why not me????
 
yeah the republicans will go from deficit dodo birds to deficit hawks on Obama's watch. I will say repubs do the loyal opposition thing way better than democrats.
 
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