1/4% Tax on all stock trades pushed in NY Times today

So, I was going over my trading if it was based on the EU proposal. I swing trade 2 financial futures markets (ES & ZN) and the 5 major FX pairs. I risk 1.5% per trade and maybe make 20 trades a month...holding for days. Basic stuff, no day trading or hyper trading. While I risk 1.5% of my account, the average trade size is about 2x the account value...so I do use some leverage, but only about 2:1...again, basic stuff. So, if they put 0.01% on derivative trades....an average trade for me that would cost $20 round-turn in commissions, I would pay an extra $200 in FTT tax!!! This would almost put me out of business as it would add up to 2-3% a month in taxes or 24-36% per year slashed off. Then add in the vastly reduced liquidity and spreads...pretty much out of business.

This movement is a movement against free enterprise and capitalism. They know it and we in the business know it...it is the masses who do not understand this. Guberment control and socialism always leads to failure (i.e. Europe right now and history proves this), but they keep trying to destroy it all.
 
Apply those numbers to New York...

The finance/investment industry is 35% of Manhattan's $1.2 trillion economy.

Let's use the EU report's estimates that equity trading volume will decrease by 20% and all derivatives by 90%. There are 300k people working in the industry in Manhattan. If only 20% in the industry lose their jobs, that's 60,000 people out of work, plus the domino effect in the rest of the local economy (restaurants, clothing stores, etc.). The standard estimate is a 2-1 loss ratio. That would result in 180,000 total unemployed in Manahattan and over $100 billion lost in annual economic activity. The tax revenue losses would be staggering.

Imagine what will happen in Chicago if 90% of all derivative trading suddenly dried up. Thousands will join the unemployment lines. The local impact in the economy will be in the tens of billions.

Defazio's tax would accomplish what al-queda could not -- the destruction of the US as the world's financial center



Quote from Stok:

So, I was going over my trading if it was based on the EU proposal. I swing trade 2 financial futures markets (ES & ZN) and the 5 major FX pairs. I risk 1.5% per trade and maybe make 20 trades a month...holding for days. Basic stuff, no day trading or hyper trading. While I risk 1.5% of my account, the average trade size is about 2x the account value...so I do use some leverage, but only about 2:1...again, basic stuff. So, if they put 0.01% on derivative trades....an average trade for me that would cost $20 round-turn in commissions, I would pay an extra $200 in FTT tax!!! This would almost put me out of business as it would add up to 2-3% a month in taxes or 24-36% per year slashed off. Then add in the vastly reduced liquidity and spreads...pretty much out of business.

This movement is a movement against free enterprise and capitalism. They know it and we in the business know it...it is the masses who do not understand this. Guberment control and socialism always leads to failure (i.e. Europe right now and history proves this), but they keep trying to destroy it all.
 
Quote from tomdavis:

Apply those numbers to New York...

The finance/investment industry is 35% of Manhattan's economy.

Defazio's tax would accomplish what al-queda could not -- the destruction of New York's financial industry.

Yeah, absolutely correct. It is just such an absurd tax and destruction it goes to show that liberal's have no brains. Or Insane in the Membrane!!

I think liberalism is a mental disease and the reason obamacare was created to cover it :D :p
 
Quote from MrPowerBallad:

Tobin tax is likely, says banking chief

The UK is likely to adopt a tax on all financial transaction following pressure from the European Commission, the head of the British Bankers' Association (BBA) has said.

BBA chief executive Angela Knight told a conference at the Saïd Business School in Oxford she expects the EU to adopt the tax, which will impose an 0.1% charge on transactions involving EU financial institutions. "If I had to make a bet, I would bet that the FTT will be adopted," she said.


http://www.accountancyage.com/aa/news/2114583/tobin-tax-banking-chief

I cannot believe I am reading this. This makes no sense at all. Why would the UK adopt the ftt and throw their entire financial industry under the bus?

How many statements have we seen from UK goverment officials lately saying no way to this tax. So now their going to completely reverse course and agree to a huge EU power grab? I just don't see it.

This quote from the article is crazy:

"The tax would not particularly affect the City of London but would clamp down on high frequency traders that offer little to the wider economy, Bergmann said. These traders partake in a number of small transactions with little marginal profit. The tax would simply encourage fewer transactions at a higher profit margin, he said."


-Guru
 
Quote from JamesL:

So, it seems DeFazio senses another opening here and is going to introduce this tax for the, what, 6th, 7th time?

Leave a comment for the article. We need to continually have our voices heard.

I was almost getting worried that Defazio was going to disappoint us and not roll out his annual ftt bill (LOL). So this is the sequel to the 2009 Defazio Harkin bill. I mean the original went over so well (LOL).

It will be really interesting to see what changes are made to the bill this time around. I'm sure the .25% rate that was touted last time around will be lowered. It will probably match the .01% that the Europeans are pushing.

At any rate I would be very surprised that this bill ever comes up for a vote. I'm sure Dave Camp who heads up the tax writing House Ways and Means Committee will make sure that this thing gets buried in committee.

-Guru
 
Quote from listedguru:

I was almost getting worried that Defazio was going to disappoint us and not roll out his annual ftt bill (LOL). So this is the sequel to the 2009 Defazio Harkin bill. I mean the original went over so well (LOL).

It will be really interesting to see what changes are made to the bill this time around. I'm sure the .25% rate that was touted last time around will be lowered. It will probably match the .01% that the Europeans are pushing.

At any rate I would be very surprised that this bill ever comes up for a vote. I'm sure Dave Camp who heads up the tax writing House Ways and Means Committee will make sure that this thing gets buried in committee.

-Guru

+1

The only thing that needs to be buried now is Defaggio :D
 
One thing that bugs me about all this, wasn't Germany against this tax awhile back? I remember reading they were and then they supported it. Hope the UK does not do the same thing. London will be destroyed.
 
I just submitted this to Forbes for my blog on Great Speculations.


A proposal for a financial-transactions tax (FTT) is now entrenched in the EU, with proponents facing off against opponents. Debating points have been made over and over and the respective parties agree to disagree. It’s now up to power politics and a tug of war. In one corner, the continentals and EU-federalists, who are in control of the agenda in Brussels, are pushing through their FTT proposal, despite efforts to block it from wayward Brits, Swedes and the Netherlands.

<strong>The Brits may not be able to stop FTT in the EU.</strong>
In the EU, while it takes a unanimous vote to pass a new tax regime like FTT, Brits, Swedes and the Netherlands may not be able to block this FTT proposal. How so? A British member of the European Parliament warned the Brits that EU officials were considering ways to negate their veto by finding a clever path to passage. Value-added taxes (VAT), which are pervasive in the EU, don’t require unanimous ratification by EU members, all that is needed is a simple majority vote. EU officials may re-name FTT as a VAT on financial-transactions. In fact, some proponents compared FTT to VAT when they made their arguments for passage in the first place.

<strong>FTT is meat for the angry lions.</strong>
French PM Sarkozy and German Chancellor Merkel, both center-right continental leaders, each face strong political pressure from their left, who demand even more onerous actions against the financial services industries. Sarkozy and Merkel appear to be feeding FTT meat to the angry lion, as they and their parties are both behind in the polls.

<strong>Will Wall Street protestors carry the FTT flag?</strong>
Back on the U.S. side of the pond, FTT proponents are handing protesters marching on Wall Street a new FTT flag to carry. Celebrities on the left, including Michael Moore and Susan Sarandon are being joined by FTT-advocate groups including nurses, unions and Robin Hood Tax campaigners. Protests are gathering force, and media coverage.

<strong>FTT is being dusted off again in Congress.</strong>
FTT-advocates in Congress are quickly dusting off their failed FTT bills from 2009 and 2010. Congressman Peter DeFazio (D-OR) and Senator Tom Harkin (D-Iowa) are readying new EU-inspired FTT bills for the House and Senate, respectively just in time for the upcoming November G-20 meeting in Cannes France.

<strong>Treasury Secretary Geithner and finance groups say No to FTT.</strong>
Finance industry groups have all weighed-in vigorously against FTT over the past few months, as FTT clouds grew darker in Europe.

U.S. Treasury Secretary Geithner and the Canadian finance minister have repeatedly reminded EU finance ministers the U.S. and Canada will not pass a FTT, and they will block it in the G-20 too. FTT pushers know their biggest weakness is not passing it in the entire G-20 and worldwide too, because people will find a way to avoid this onerous tax.

Even with these objections, the EU is crafting their FTT to be as far reaching as possible. They will try to block people from finding loopholes to avoid the tax.

<strong>Power politics and the tug of tax war.</strong>
The FTT tax battle in the EU reminds me of tax wars in the U.S. now. There is no more tax debate. In the U.S., Democrats want tax hikes, and Republicans want to block tax hikes. Tax reform that generates growth is one item where there is common ground. FTT is certainly not tax reform and it kills growth and jobs for sure, so FTT is not on common ground.

We are left with a tug of war and power politics over FTT. In fact, it may be more about EU power politics – France-Germany-Brussels federalists versus the independents - than the idea of FTT in the first place. Conservative Brits are convinced the French and Germans want to rein in their power base in financial services, as the Brits say almost 80% of EU financial transactions are currently executed in London. FTT is clearly harmful, so power politics may be a better explanation of why they would consider such a damaging proposal, especially during a period of great distress in EU financial markets.

Republicans will certainly block FTT in the U.S., even though they don’t want to be perceived as being defenders of Wall Street. Secretary Geithner keeps reminding all that FTT hurts retail investors, pension funds, farmers and hedgers, more than banks.

<strong>It’s time for traders to march to.</strong>
Traders should start expressing themselves in the financial markets rather than just media comment boards, and petitions sent to elected officials. The time for debate is over and it’s time for some power politics of our own. Boycott French and German financial markets, trading instruments, the euro and debt instruments. Don’t speculate on PIIGS debt or provide liquidity in Europe when they need it most. Teach them a trading business lesson 101, the value of market-makers, liquidity providers and speculators. They won’t value your role until you leave the negotiating trading-table.

Robert A. Green, CEO
GreenTraderTax Traders Association
<a href="http://www.greencompany.com/Association/index.shtml">http://www.greencompany.com/Association/index.shtml</a>
Please join our association to fight against FTT
 
Eu calls for global tax, Canada says can block it:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/10/05/uk-eurozone-tax-idUKTRE7942WU20111005

Canadian Finance Minister Jim Flaherty:

"We will continue leading that charge against a transactions tax and I am confident that our allies on this point, who are the emerging economies, will stay with us and join us in opposing what we view as a counterproductive tax," he said.

"I am actually confident that we have enough of them in the G20 that we will be successful on that initiative," he added. G20 finance ministers will meet next weekend in Paris and G20 leaders will meet November 3-4 in Cannes.

-Guru
 
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