zdreg, i don't know what your d.c.-knowledge may be -- and, of course, it is always impossible to predict the future with certainty -- but this does not resonate with my own experience with the K Street-Capitol Hill-White House crowd. What you describe strikes me as an industry lobbyist's tactical fantasy, perhaps, but one that will not make it through the process to become a reality.
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1/4% Tax on all stock trades pushed in NY Times today
- Thread starter seasideheights
- Start date
zdreg, i don't know what your d.c.-knowledge may be -- and, of course, it is always impossible to predict the future with certainty -- but this does not resonate with my own experience with the K Street-Capitol Hill-White House crowd. What you describe strikes me as an industry lobbyist's tactical fantasy, perhaps, but one that will not make it through the process to become a reality.
Quote from tortoise:
zdreg, i don't know what your d.c.-knowledge may be -- and, of course, it is always impossible to predict the future with certainty -- but this does not resonate with my own experience with the K Street-Capitol Hill-White House crowd. What you describe strikes me as an industry lobbyist's tactical fantasy, perhaps, but one that will not make it through the process to become a reality.
the UK has a FTT for years and the financial industry is exempt. I hope you are right.
Quote from zdreg:
the UK has a FTT for years and the financial industry is exempt. I hope you are right.
Yes, another example of a populist tax which has exemptions written in for the very "rich people" that the government claims to be targeting. All professional securities dealers are exempt - the only people who pay the stamp tax on equities are ordinary investors - ie the man on the street.
Anyone who knows what is what will either do it through an exempted company or as a contract for difference written against a counterparty who is exempt from the taxes.
I should add that the financially ignorant looters pushing for these taxes rightly bear their effects, while the enterprising and successful find creative ways of avoiding them.
Anyone in the UK who believes in "taxing the speculators" is already losing half of one percent of their pension and investments due to similar foolish attitudes by their forebears.
PatternRec
Guest
Quote from zdreg:
I am not taking a position of superiority. show but u have don't have to prove that I don't understand the dynamics of wall street.. you presented nothing to back your remark.
My statement already has evidence in that you overweight your knowledge of "Washington dynamics" all the while failing to balance and reconcile that view with other forces and interests at work.
Conspiracy theorists routinely broach subjects from the point of view of having superior, special knowledge. And they invariably fail to take into their consideration facts, history, and evidence to the contrary.
Quote from PatternRec:
My statement already has evidence in that you overweight your knowledge of "Washington dynamics" all the while failing to balance and reconcile that view with other forces and interests at work.
Conspiracy theorists routinely broach subjects from the point of view of having superior, special knowledge. And they invariably fail to take into their consideration facts, history, and evidence to the contrary.
you claim to show but u show nothing.
this your unsubstantiated and complete remark;
What's interesting is that Zdreg takes a position of superiority claiming that most do not understand the dynamics of Washington all the while demonstrating a lack of understanding of the dynamics of Wall Street.
I don't deal in conspiracy theories. your remark about conspiracy theories while correct doesn't apply to current the discussion. what conspiracy theory have i presented? that people make deals in Washington?
PatternRec
Guest
Quote from zdreg:
you claim to show but u show nothing.
this your unsubstantiated and complete remark;
What's interesting is that Zdreg takes a position of superiority claiming that most do not understand the dynamics of Washington all the while demonstrating a lack of understanding of the dynamics of Wall Street.
I don't deal in conspiracy theories. your remark about conspiracy theories while correct doesn't apply to current the discussion. what conspiracy theory have i presented? that people make deals in Washington?
Seriously?
Ok, here we go:
Quote from Zdreg
this is a realistic assessment compared to the pollyannish prose that is constantly being posted punctuated with imho and the worthless i agree with your post from people who are clueless to the dynamics of Washington DC .
You by extension of these remarks, consider yourself superior to the other posters who tirelessly keep up with the issue, some having industry insider opinions and insights. What is more, in light on the many posts by credible sources some of whom are quotes from Washington insiders which denote the very low likelihood of passage in the US without international consensus, you go on to claim some "special knowledge" of the dynamics of Washington D.C.
Your only support being that in a few countries the FTT exists or has existed apart from international consensus.
Then we have this:
the bottom line is that wall street doesn't give a pittance about the traders outside their firm. wall street and the banks will accept a transaction tax in order to avoid a bank levy or a windfall tax on bonuses,
Speculation offered as fact and one which demonstrates an imperfect knowledge of wall street dynamics.
That you berate and insult the views of the contributing posters who research tirelessly and are fighting in their own way to protect their livelihood, only speaks to your sense of self-importance. And how do you counter them? With conspiracy theory. Why is it conspiracy theory? Because in your view, FTT is a foregone conclusion no matter what evidence exists to the contrary.
Why are we wasting time and energy arguing here? We should all be on the same page. Basically, if a FTT were to happen, there are two basic ways it could go down:
1- The big players get an exemption (just like the UK). If this happens, then obviously the revenue raised would be a fraction of the numbers being thrown around, and the "evil speculators" get off the hook. Only "main street" ends up paying more.
Or
2- No exemption, everyone pays. Trading volume dries up as transactions move overseas, so the revenue raised would also be a fraction of the estimates. The added costs would be passed onto the mom and pop investers via much wider bid/ask spreads, reduced liquidity, and the fact that mutual fund/pension returns would be lowered due to these added costs/taxes.
Either way, mom and pop are the ones who suffer in the end. That should be the message, that this would hurt main street just as much if not more than wall street. Reading headlines of "Let Wall Street pay for the restoration of Main Street" will obviously get a lot of support from the public. If they understand what would actually happen, it shouldn't.
1- The big players get an exemption (just like the UK). If this happens, then obviously the revenue raised would be a fraction of the numbers being thrown around, and the "evil speculators" get off the hook. Only "main street" ends up paying more.
Or
2- No exemption, everyone pays. Trading volume dries up as transactions move overseas, so the revenue raised would also be a fraction of the estimates. The added costs would be passed onto the mom and pop investers via much wider bid/ask spreads, reduced liquidity, and the fact that mutual fund/pension returns would be lowered due to these added costs/taxes.
Either way, mom and pop are the ones who suffer in the end. That should be the message, that this would hurt main street just as much if not more than wall street. Reading headlines of "Let Wall Street pay for the restoration of Main Street" will obviously get a lot of support from the public. If they understand what would actually happen, it shouldn't.
PatternRec
Guest
You're right, we shouldn't be wasting time arguing per se.
But it appears we have a contrarian in our midst that only shoots down the other posters thoughts and efforts without just cause.
In any event, I yield.
But it appears we have a contrarian in our midst that only shoots down the other posters thoughts and efforts without just cause.
In any event, I yield.
Let's keep this thread professional as it has been since Jan 09.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Quote from PatternRec:
You're right, we shouldn't be wasting time arguing per se.
But it appears we have a contrarian in our midst that only shoots down the other posters thoughts and efforts without just cause.
In any event, I yield.
you didn't yield anything,
"But it appears we have a contrarian in our midst that only shoots down the other posters thoughts and efforts without just cause. "
of course it is purely coincidental that these people share the same opinion as yours.
Haha!