0-100mph - Trying to go from newbie to a pro ...
- Thread starter zanek
- Start date
Argh, got massacred today using larger position sizes on 3 trades in MSFT, FAS, FAZ. 1 trade was bad because I was just flat out wrong.
My other 2 trades were actually correct in predicting the trend, but because it took be so long to trying to fill out and refill the OCO and limit order forms, I panicked by the time I was finally filled thinking I had missed the opportunity. Both times, there was a slight dip after I was filled and I immediately sold since I didnt get in at the price I wanted for a loss.
For instance, I tried to get in FAZ when it was around 20.56 at 11:22am but didnt get filled till 20.75, then it swung down to 20.53 and I sold because I panicked thinking I was wrong and of course, 10 min later it started the trend my system predicted going all the way up to 21.45 (almost 5% gain).
Same thing with FAS, my system predicted an upturn at 2:43pm, I tried to get in at 75.56, didnt get filled till 75.86, it swung down for literally 3 min to 75.60, I panicked and sold at 75.69 because I didnt get in at the price I wanted and wanted to minimize my losses because I thought I could be wrong. FAS never went below 75.56 and rocketed all the way up to 77.62. (2.5 % gain ! )
Net result 2 losers that could have netted me $3500 turned into two $500 loser trades
I feel some solace in that winners were picked correctly, I just need to have better entries, and wider stops. My new brokerage interface should help I hope, though most of the problem lies in my frustration with not getting in at the price I want and selling to early
-$848 for today
My other 2 trades were actually correct in predicting the trend, but because it took be so long to trying to fill out and refill the OCO and limit order forms, I panicked by the time I was finally filled thinking I had missed the opportunity. Both times, there was a slight dip after I was filled and I immediately sold since I didnt get in at the price I wanted for a loss.
For instance, I tried to get in FAZ when it was around 20.56 at 11:22am but didnt get filled till 20.75, then it swung down to 20.53 and I sold because I panicked thinking I was wrong and of course, 10 min later it started the trend my system predicted going all the way up to 21.45 (almost 5% gain).
Same thing with FAS, my system predicted an upturn at 2:43pm, I tried to get in at 75.56, didnt get filled till 75.86, it swung down for literally 3 min to 75.60, I panicked and sold at 75.69 because I didnt get in at the price I wanted and wanted to minimize my losses because I thought I could be wrong. FAS never went below 75.56 and rocketed all the way up to 77.62. (2.5 % gain ! )
Net result 2 losers that could have netted me $3500 turned into two $500 loser trades
I feel some solace in that winners were picked correctly, I just need to have better entries, and wider stops. My new brokerage interface should help I hope, though most of the problem lies in my frustration with not getting in at the price I want and selling to early
-$848 for today
You are courageous. I wish for you well, but you are also doing a number of things wrong.
Your capital is very good. Why are you risking it in this manner (assuming that you do not have another bigger chuck)?
Your trading business contains weaknesses, and in my opinion you should review it.
Best wishes
Your capital is very good. Why are you risking it in this manner (assuming that you do not have another bigger chuck)?
Your trading business contains weaknesses, and in my opinion you should review it.
Best wishes
Thanks duhmentor. I agree with you 100%. I'm switching to a decent trading platform this week. With it, I will be able to enter OCO's and limit orders with 1 click and set default templates so I dont have to fill out the same info over and over like I'm doing now. Truth be told, I cant wait to see how my trading turns out with it.
You asked earlier how I'm addressing my problems. Well, I'm still keeping a trading journal, and I'm trying to eliminate any problem areas (entering orders) via technology upgrades or by documenting where I'm going wrong each time.
I know I'm still a newbie, but I dont care what happens, I'm not giving up on this. I believe my system is very good. I've backtested and forward tested it on 2 different platforms and its showed returns over 500% for certain stocks. Worst case returns for other stocks is over 60% .
@riskfreetrading:
What are the weaknesses you see in my trading ? I'm not risking that much per trade. I'm generally risking less that 1/2 %. I also have 2 other quasi large accounts, but I'm not touching those other than for small accounts until I'm consistently winning.
You asked earlier how I'm addressing my problems. Well, I'm still keeping a trading journal, and I'm trying to eliminate any problem areas (entering orders) via technology upgrades or by documenting where I'm going wrong each time.
I know I'm still a newbie, but I dont care what happens, I'm not giving up on this. I believe my system is very good. I've backtested and forward tested it on 2 different platforms and its showed returns over 500% for certain stocks. Worst case returns for other stocks is over 60% .
@riskfreetrading:
What are the weaknesses you see in my trading ? I'm not risking that much per trade. I'm generally risking less that 1/2 %. I also have 2 other quasi large accounts, but I'm not touching those other than for small accounts until I'm consistently winning.
It is a number of things Zanek. It is not easy to expand on them here. You seem also to be working on psychology, but you will understand one day that although psychology is important, it is actually a symptom of other things, and is less of a "disease" than people think.
The points I allude to are NOT about psychology.
In relation to psychology/money, is there a dollar amount that will cause you pain (real internal pain) either per day, and/or also cumulative?
Best wishes!
The points I allude to are NOT about psychology.
In relation to psychology/money, is there a dollar amount that will cause you pain (real internal pain) either per day, and/or also cumulative?
Best wishes!
@riskfreetrading:
Cumalative, if I lose $25k I will start to feel some pain and start questioning everything.
Today wasnt great at all. Started out the day sleep deprived (6 hrs of sleep). Picked 2 entries correctly. First one, my stop was to tight. Second time, I mistakenly hit the sell button right after I bought FAS at 70.70 at 12:55pm. I literally laughed outloud because the amount of mistakes I'm making is comical ! FAS ended up going to 72.58 right after my mistake.
I feel like I'm dying a death of 1000 cuts lately. The salt in the wound is that I'm picking the right entries, but I havent been able to let one ride in the last couple of days. Ugh
My system is indicating the low today for FAS at 69.07 may be the bottom for it, and its about to start an uptrend for 1-2 weeks. Tomorrow will be the confirmation for this though.
Citigroup - C - My system calls the $4 low today as the bottom and the start of an uptrend as highly probable. It will probably swing up for 1-3 days. Will know 100% tomorrow
-$205 today
Cumalative, if I lose $25k I will start to feel some pain and start questioning everything.
Today wasnt great at all. Started out the day sleep deprived (6 hrs of sleep). Picked 2 entries correctly. First one, my stop was to tight. Second time, I mistakenly hit the sell button right after I bought FAS at 70.70 at 12:55pm. I literally laughed outloud because the amount of mistakes I'm making is comical ! FAS ended up going to 72.58 right after my mistake.
I feel like I'm dying a death of 1000 cuts lately. The salt in the wound is that I'm picking the right entries, but I havent been able to let one ride in the last couple of days. Ugh
My system is indicating the low today for FAS at 69.07 may be the bottom for it, and its about to start an uptrend for 1-2 weeks. Tomorrow will be the confirmation for this though.
Citigroup - C - My system calls the $4 low today as the bottom and the start of an uptrend as highly probable. It will probably swing up for 1-3 days. Will know 100% tomorrow
-$205 today
1. Once you learn, a day like today should be a no brainer to make money. I did not check the details of what I did not trade, but I bet it should red allover the place (except in reverse funds/etfs).
2. 25K is a lot of money for a lot of people. You have courage since you can handle such a draw down. Did U consider working with someone, and pay only if there are profits?
3. You have also the courage to post your losses. That is a good sign if one is to learn.
4. You might also want to check the links below where I posted in two others journals, and I took the opposite of some of their positions while informing them the night before:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=148295&perpage=6&pagenumber=32
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=148809&perpage=6&pagenumber=11
A timing thread I started for fun:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=180428&perpage=6&pagenumber=3
Good luck to you!
2. 25K is a lot of money for a lot of people. You have courage since you can handle such a draw down. Did U consider working with someone, and pay only if there are profits?
3. You have also the courage to post your losses. That is a good sign if one is to learn.
4. You might also want to check the links below where I posted in two others journals, and I took the opposite of some of their positions while informing them the night before:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=148295&perpage=6&pagenumber=32
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=148809&perpage=6&pagenumber=11
A timing thread I started for fun:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=180428&perpage=6&pagenumber=3
Good luck to you!
@riskfreetrading:
Thanks man ! You rock. I'm checking out your links now. I dont think I could work for anyone, as I own my own business, so I dont have anymore time.
This has been very tough for me, but I'm extremely determined. I think it comes from being a software engineer. Sometimes I spend days trying to solve a problem or fix an algorithm, so I feel like I'm just getting started with the stock market.
I'm going to start posting screenshots of my account soon.
******
ALSO, I just reviewed the DOW Industrials and S&P with my system:
Overall, my system is calling for a highly probable major downturn of the DOW Industrials for the next 1-6 months ! It looks like it will dip below 9000, but I hope I'm wrong. Will know for sure by the end of November if the downturn will be severe.
Thanks man ! You rock. I'm checking out your links now. I dont think I could work for anyone, as I own my own business, so I dont have anymore time.
This has been very tough for me, but I'm extremely determined. I think it comes from being a software engineer. Sometimes I spend days trying to solve a problem or fix an algorithm, so I feel like I'm just getting started with the stock market.
I'm going to start posting screenshots of my account soon.
******
ALSO, I just reviewed the DOW Industrials and S&P with my system:
Overall, my system is calling for a highly probable major downturn of the DOW Industrials for the next 1-6 months ! It looks like it will dip below 9000, but I hope I'm wrong. Will know for sure by the end of November if the downturn will be severe.
1. Thanks for the complements.
2. I was not suggesting that you work for others, but rather that someone work for you and get paid only if s/he delivers so that you minimize your business cost and maximize profits.
3. I noticed that you were independent thinker and also well structured. But, I would be careful. Those same attributes can hurt you, which I hope will not, but they have hurt me when I started so I know that they hurt.
Analytical rigor will help, BUT ONLY after your have figured the other things which are also analytical but counter intuitive to first comers to markets.
It can take years to work on it, and on yourself.
3. To give another example of what people see, and what the other side see, check this link in relation to a stock over the last three days.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2621167#post2621167