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alfonso A bit of a mean shot ..what I floored you by entering the thread so what.. your response is you expected better?? Please get over it. Every response I make doesn’t necessarily refer directly to you. I may well insert a few nuggets :D of thought which might serve to expand on my...

sheesh... Talk about throwing down the gauntlet, alfonso. Pascal's wager or just another is there a God chat. Or Is this the latest ET deism craze thanks to the Founding Fathers being brought into debate again? Ah.. I am too cynical. Some guys just gotta fit in nice and snug in a little...

alfonso Are you saying it is not possible to simplify, or is it... simplification is not possible and/or unwlecome? Far, far more? I don't think so. There is nothing new here alfonso, you are talking about a personal belief in God(s). It is not that complicated. I think most people can grasp in...

well ok...I don't mind... no cyber wedgies though !.... Before which 'gods' were invented TM ? The Jesus God and before that.. Jesus's daddy God and before that - Ceasar as God and before that - the Greek Gods and before that - the Sun Gods and the many living Gods of Egyptian times and...

I did not utter the words let alone even suggest people have not "always sought a higher power".... so Let's see surfer, which part of this statement is inaccurate??? is it this one... "People had established moral values before 'gods' were invented" As there are moral standards set down...

alfonso, You are unnecessarily complicating the whole job. People had established moral values before 'gods' were invented. The invention of a God is nothing more than a convenience for having these values handed over to a 'greater power'. I would think it is harder to justify a...

TM_Direct TM, If there is anything else other than standards of man, please advise what they are and where they would be found. If someone doesn't follow basic standards of man, whose or what standards do they follow? So far as the last few thousand years are concerned anyway, any standards for...

electron It's possible to override the gyration governor and achieve rotations of 3600 degrees and higher. The only downside is centrifugal force. More rotations = higher revolutions. One guy frisbeed his SUV 3 blocks

Doubter, As I understand, the discussion was not about the measure of morals or morality, but where morality itself comes from But in any event there is nothing to suggest Sen. Moynihan meant anything of the kind. Where is the justification for the idea that a continuous reappraisal by...

Doubter, I am intrigued by this phrase. If you think it is dumbing down deviancy to bring an end the immorality of being given excuse for murdering someone you don't like, because it says in the bible witches must be put to death, then more power to "defining deviency down", as you put it...

TM_Direct I read back through the last few posts just to be as sure as I can that I understood the question you posed to me.. I am not sure "clinging" is wrong but :).... I answered your question. My answer to you suggested these things are demonstrable as wrong without calling upon...

TM_Direct Just what is it you are saying? You teach your kids that lying is wrong, that cheating is wrong that stealing is wrong. You explain to them why. Don't you give substantial practical helpful and useful reason why it is not acceptable to do these things..or do you tell them stealing is...

TM_Direct Are you are talking about acceptable and suitable social behaviour or indoctrination into a particular mindset. You asked me should children be taught to respect, to study, not to lie, steal, cheat (my answer is yes)... but in turn are you to tell them - instruct them - that...

.....and do you go on on to worship GI joe and believe that barbie is the creator of the universe, or did you grow up and begin to understand the relevancy of this so called "brain washing"

Hi ElCubano.. :) "The Family" is good, they send their regards

ElCube, WD was simply trying to calrify the point TMTrader had already made he said ".-.-.--" not ".-.---" This is what makes ET a great place to get this type of reliable information on specific identifiable spatially limited locations.

I don't. I see no evidence to suggest that 'christians' nowadays have any understanding as to what might be suitable as right or wrong under an independant impartial rule of law. A Secularist is simply someone who believes that religion should be excluded from government and education. I can...

I always dreamed of having a reason to quote Baron or have a post on the same page. I can die happy now I dun both :) stu:D edit: bugger !

I see this has drifted wildly so just a quickie as it were. In biblical times you could own many wives, mistresses and slaves who were considered to be a man's property. So long as you fornicated with your own property and not someone else’s you did not commit adultery. It was a question...

TM_Direct. I am obliged to you :) Doubter, Right and wrong under Law is not mob rule, unless you consider what you live under now is mob rule. Show me an immutable moral standard which comes from the religious and is reliable as a basis for Law. Word of warning...watch out for that word...