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The poker game is self contained so i agree that poker is truly zero sum, markets are tied to some economic fundamental, so i don't agree that they are 'closed'. in the strict sense of the mechanics of trading, if it were closed like poker, then i agree. In the broader sense though since...

whitster, if the markets existed in a vacuum and the only game was trading then i agree with you. You make sense but I take the broader view.

What if I find some arbitrage trade of futures against something really odd like tractors? and suppose that in the net I lose in the futures but gain in the tractors? according to the narrow definition here I am a loser in the futures market.

Lights, the stock market can keep going up as long as GDP does.

what you are trying to assert is contrary to economics. That trading produces value is well known, for people other than us who deal with real production. are you trying to tell me that if i am a farmer and I sell one contract to Archer Daniels, then later deliver against that to Archer, then...

you are making everyone into a trader, and they are not. for some people the futures market is only one part of a larger equation in their enterprise. In other words the 'game' for some is not just the market, so to say that they are even playing the 'game' isn't correct.

zero sum for which players? all? how is it irrelevent?

yes clearly the stock market is not zero sum for the simple reason that the seller may be simply trying to raise money for their business on the IPO, and if the stock keeps going up the all are winners. sellers are not always traders, and why can't that be for futures? let's say that hedging...

I dont think it takes grapefruits to post on a message board (however is does take stones for curling!), but all I am willing to say is that I dont know if it will reach 1300 so i am not willing to give you the prize yet bird. I like the predictions but i would appreciate more insight into them

well sorry for the profanity, the mantra just reminded me of a very painful series of events 15 years ago with a broker who talked like that. it was life changing and although it was my own fault, I'll still never forgive those vermin

I love 100 % up room to go!! who made up that saying anyway? it sounds like some sort of trailer park rat fuck son of a bitch in a cheap suit broker type talk

yeah but if it does the gay stalker will never shut up

if you are dissappointed then just follow valium-ente, after all he is gay and bird is just his she-bitch

Man, get over your obsession with me. You are too gay. Aren't you embarrassed that you keep coming to this thread? hmm, a gay guy obsessing and stalking? sounds like there will some manly lovin happening soon

if S&P approaches 1300 tomorrow i wonder if bird has enough bankroll to sell it off... I hereby stand up and make my bold and fearless prediction for the rest of 2006: The S&P will move both up and down and settle in the 1100-1500 range.

I never heard that ( I live in an insular environment). But I do think that the S&P won't see 1300 for the entire first half of 2006. I suppose that means, according to the quote, that we are in for lower prices in the next week, to make January a "down month". it's just statistics- a down...

bird, just wondering if you put any stock in the 'january is indicator for the whole year' stuff? FYI i don't. also I may have missed it before, but just what do you look at? - amateur P.S. I agree that elliot wave is crap

why can't we just do this, all those who don't like rubberbird leave and never read his shit. why this pointless name calling? just leave

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote from Perseus: It doesn't matter to me if he made money, a good call is a good call regardless of trading it. However, we must wait until feb 1 to give full congrats. keep up the good work rubberbird...

sure steve, however when we just say it to ourselves we are usually guilty of confirmation bias. rubber posts his on the web and that's a different game because you can empirically track his predictions. I count him correct on 3 of 4 not including his end of year prediction of 1241, but that's...