how would you spoof with an order that is not even shown in the book because it's cancelled when it's not filled????
What is this guy talking about? AMP
- Thread starter hilmy83
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Oh, it will show up... for a few seconds. It won't be very noticeable to the naked eyes but they'll get picked up by other bots.
More like milliseconds. I have seen it with my own eyes some years ago, when I was watching forward MGC contract months. It was the most curious thing. It may still be happening today on forward MGC, but I have not watched a ladder in years at that level of detail.
You were able to pick up FOKs that vanish in milliseconds? Yeah, right.
Anyway, sending FOK orders 1 at a time is not considered spoofing. But when you send 100s of laddered FOK at various price points, that's spoofing, period.
You were able to pick up FOKs that vanish in milliseconds? Yeah, right.
Anyway, sending FOK orders 1 at a time is not considered spoofing. But when you send 100s of laddered FOK at various price points, that's spoofing, period.
Yes! I have seen it with my own eyes on the ladder in MT5! I wish I had recorded a video of it, but it was plain of day.
The orders would flash very quickly above and below the current bid/ask in rapid succession. Exactly the same order size on both sides of the ladder. Blink-of-an-eye stuff. But it was there! No way to know if it was FOK or regular limit orders, because that does not matter. The orders came on, and then came off, in milliseconds.
which part of immediately don't you understand?
https://www.cmegroup.com/confluence...rs must be fully,the entire order is canceled.
You can see it in MT5 because the software is a piece of trash and laggs like hell. FOKs are executed against resting orders. If there is no resting order, it's canceled right away and not shown in the book
https://www.cmegroup.com/confluence...rs must be fully,the entire order is canceled.
You can see it in MT5 because the software is a piece of trash and laggs like hell. FOKs are executed against resting orders. If there is no resting order, it's canceled right away and not shown in the book
If this is all true, then why did AMP have a problem with FOK as suggested, if they do not show up on the book and therefore do not mean a disruptive practice as per Rule 575?
A Fill or Kill (FOK) order is an order that is directed to be executed immediately at the market or a specified price or canceled if not filled.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/fok.asp
However, the point isn't whether the OP used a limit or FOK. It doesn't matter. It was about him sending and immediately cancelling large amounts of order which he never intended to execute in the first place. That's called spoofing.
Edit: One more note. Even if he sends FOK at market, if he sends an order much larger than what is being printed in the order book, it will not get filled because, by definition, you need to fill the entire order or it gets cancelled.
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actually FOK is not acceptable order type in CQG desktop for limit orders. Just checked it. Probably why my orders keep coming and rejected over and over.
AMP does not have a problem, the exchange does. There are compliance checks run in the background to make sure the client plays by the exchanges rules. That's why AMP flagged him