Socioeconomics of the bible

[Gringinho]

Quote from trendlover:

Thank you Gringo for all of your explanation of system science and system bias.
What confuses me is how very educated people can not see how some religious bias create hate and division. What I mean is I want to know if some people truely believe in their god, or do they use their god to keep power, but not really believe?

I think that as with most things in life - there is a mixture of intersecting interests and motives. There is no clear cut yes/no or true/false answer to anyone... it will always be a more complex adaptive system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_adaptive_system

Although someone will tout that they are following some religious text, they will each and everyone of them be interpreting aspects or large parts individually... and the corruptive nature of the temptation to project this outward, means that they also will use it in an apologetic manner for their "morality" judgement of others and aggressive, authoritarian projection of their interpretation on others. For some objectives and interests, people come together and form common goals through social structure - but with differing interests and aspects, understanding of these structures. Instead of the trust one could imagine from consensual and balanced social structures - these structures represent the conflict within in jockeying for position and power of influence - as well as the collectivist projection of this mob of influence to dominate other individuals and groups - assimilating or destroying them.

The elitist social Darwinism is the temptation, and the radical radiation of their inner beliefs onto others is to a varying degree how they corrupt others around them. Some will not, others will sometimes and yet some will drive it to extremes. Systemic bias saturates all these structures - inwards and outwards as they construct logics to support this otherwise intellectually impossible bridging from inner belief onto a power projection outwards.

Very few seem to have the understanding of the closed off inner spiritual belief, only manifested through strong personal integrity and likewise strong ethics of their actions -- seeking consensual interaction and not judgement, thought suppression, fear, guilt or otherwise corruptive behaviour.

Remember, "educated people" have a lot of skull and bones brain real-estate investment in ideology and social structures. They don't change easier the more you are invested - rather on the contrary...

Freedom is the ultimate investment and education you can grant anyone - and that is how you respect others.

 

[Gringinho]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article4882597.ece
War on Taliban cannot be won, says army chief
October 5, 2008
Britain's most senior military commander in Afghanistan has warned that the war against the Taliban cannot be won. Brigadier Mark Carleton-Smith said the British public should not expect a “decisive military victory” but should be prepared for a possible deal with the Taliban. His assessment followed the leaking of a memo from a French diplomat who claimed that Sir Sherard Cowper-Coles, the British ambassador in Kabul, had told him the current strategy was “doomed to fail”.
...



I think this is a fair assessment, and one that also was expressed by admiral Mullen to the US congress.

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/10/mullen.afghanistan/
Admiral: Troops alone will not yield victory in Afghanistan
September 10, 2008
"We can't kill our way to victory, and no armed force anywhere -- no matter how good -- can deliver these keys alone. It requires teamwork and cooperation," Mullen said.



Now, it really depends on how you define "victory".
Is it when you kill all current enemies? Is it when the threat is avoided and peace accomplished?
The right-wing extremists and neo-conservatives agree with James Burnham that the enemy must be completely destroyed.
I guess "the war of ideas" also is something happening within...
...between those completely indoctrinated and those who stand for reasoning - not radicalism from belief systems.

 

[trendlover]

Quote from Gringinho:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article4882597.ece
War on Taliban cannot be won, says army chief
October 5, 2008
Britain's most senior military commander in Afghanistan has warned that the war against the Taliban cannot be won. Brigadier Mark Carleton-Smith said the British public should not expect a “decisive military victory” but should be prepared for a possible deal with the Taliban. His assessment followed the leaking of a memo from a French diplomat who claimed that Sir Sherard Cowper-Coles, the British ambassador in Kabul, had told him the current strategy was “doomed to fail”.
...



I think this is a fair assessment, and one that also was expressed by admiral Mullen to the US congress.

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/10/mullen.afghanistan/
Admiral: Troops alone will not yield victory in Afghanistan
September 10, 2008
"We can't kill our way to victory, and no armed force anywhere -- no matter how good -- can deliver these keys alone. It requires teamwork and cooperation," Mullen said.



Yes. It is fighting radicalism with radicalism. But what if Taliban see cooperation from west as not peaceful and not with good intentions, but as weakness? Like putting thier guard down. I am not for a radical west killing a radical taliban, but how does trust begin if only one side think cooperation is a better solution?

 

[Gringinho]

Quote from trendlover:

Yes. It is fighting radicalism with radicalism. But what if Taliban see cooperation from west as not peaceful and not with good intentions, but as weakness? Like putting thier guard down. I am not for a radical west killing a radical taliban, but how does trust begin if only one side think cooperation is a better solution?

In business, trust is made through formal agreements as contracts. Sometimes you need a formal structure like that to get started. In this case, it is definitely needed - with oversight and controls.

Then trust starts blossoming as long as it works. If destabilization of agreements starts, diplomacy and damage control ensues. It is not rock solid - but it beats investing billions in trying to bomb people who are living between rocks and pebbles into the stone age. They are already masters of their environment - nature, society and their neighbour relations.

Requirements and demands are just in this case, while a credible reaction as well as open-mindedness are needed.
You need not only trust them, but make them trust you... and that takes time.

 

[trendlover]

Quote from Gringinho:

In business, trust is made through formal agreements as contracts. Sometimes you need a formal structure like that to get started. In this case, it is definitely needed - with oversight and controls.

Then trust starts blossoming as long as it works. If destabilization of agreements starts, diplomacy and damage control ensues. It is not rock solid - but it beats investing billions in trying to bomb people who are living between rocks and pebbles into the stone age. They are already masters of their environment - nature, society and their neighbour relations.

Requirements and demands are just in this case, while a credible reaction as well as open-mindedness are needed.
You need not only trust them, but make them trust you... and that takes time.

That makes good sense.