Sam Harris simply destroys Christianity

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studentofthemarkets said:
I just thought of this...or maybe I heard it somewhere and it came to mind when thinking about this thread, but there is a passage that provides overwhelming evidence that the Bible was inspired by God and therefore does not contain error.

Luke 17:30-36 talks about when Jesus will be revealed. The passage mentions it being night and day at the same time.

This provides evidence in a couple ways.

First of all, if the words were written by mere men intending to spread lies, they would certainly be careful not to include what would seem to everyone at the time like an obvious contradiction, that it could be night and day at the same time. People 2000 years ago didn't know the earth was round and that it would be night in one place while daylight in another.

Second, it shows that Jesus spoke truth. Jesus chose to use this example, knowing that people didn't yet have the scientific knowledge to explain it. And here we are, a couple thousand years later with a very obvious (at least to me) proof that only God would have known, at the time this was written, that night and day occur at the same instance on this planet.


Here are a few verses pulled from the passage in Luke 17 (NIV):


Vs 30: It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed

Vs 31: On that day no one who is on the housetop, with possessions inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything.

Skipping verses 32 and 33

Vs 34, 35: I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.”
​

But even proofs like this one rarely seem to make a difference to anyone. I think there is some truth to the saying that people don't believe in God as revealed in the Bible because they don't want to believe, not for lack of evidence.
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But even proofs like this one rarely seem to make a difference to anyone. I think there is some truth to the saying that people don't believe in God as revealed in the Bible because they don't want to believe, not for lack of evidence.
It's possible to believe in a God of sorts, but not believe in the Book you provide as evidence. There may in fact be some sort of Creator, I don't know for sure and neither does anyone else, but this body of evidence called the Bible is pure manmade nonsense cooked up by people wanting to control the lives of other people. Believe what you will, I ain't buying it.
 
Here, an atheist questions Sam Harris' view on morality.


This overlaps what ive been saying about good. Ask ten people what is good and you get ten different answers. If "God is good", then you'll get nearly ten different Gods.

We need to raise our standards to discover a really good God, or a really Good god.

The only way for god to be Good is for all of our troubles to be voluntary, if not an abuse of our priveledges and /or abilities.

Imagination is an abuse of reality. If reality is the proverbial Good, this would explain how imagination is the proverbial evil.

The making of man would need to be from the domain of imagination, for a Good reality to still be good. It would need be made from our own imagination (abuse of mental capacity) for Good to remain still good.

This is the highest standard. It is beyond imagination, which would explain why any of us (pretty much all men) who value imagination cannot comprehend what is really Good.

Imagination proposes a domain where good and not-good ("evil") can co-exist (as in, "tree of the knowledge of good and evil"), which completely wipes out an objective Good.

The fruit of such a hybrid concept is tempting indeed.
 
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studentofthemarkets said:
Quotes are taken from the Bible. Anyone can google them to find the references.

On a personal note, I am very grieved at all the evil that exists in this world, and I too have wondered the same question. Especially when I consider the Biblical warnings that there is a future judgment where all will become accountable to God for every thought and action.

Here are some things that I have come to understand:

God has declared Himself to be good and loving and all powerful. He has made all to be completely dependent upon Himself and His provisions. He holds all things together..."All things were made by Him and for Him..."

If God didn't punish evil, He wouldn't be just and righteous. The assurance I have that God is good and will do what is right for all eternity, is that He cannot tolerate evil and He will punish all that is not right. "Shall not the judge of all the earth do right?"

One thing I can't quite explain is why babies are affected with a sin nature and come under the condemnation this whole world is under. I wrote about that to Stu in one of the threads a while ago, but there are some various thoughts on this. The one I think is most likely right, is that all people had their life beginnings with Adam and Eve, and that life was present in the Garden of Eden. So, when Adam and Eve deliberately chose to depart from God, EVEN when God had explained that the consequence would be "dying, you shall surely die," that life that was present became corrupted from it's original "good" condition it was created to have and was passed on from generation to generation. The Bible does give hints that this is the case.

Now, I rarely depart from just listening to the Bible, but I do have my own thoughts, (I didn't get these from anyone else, so reader, beware) and if someone wants to think I've gone outside of Biblical authority, they may be right. However, I sometimes wonder, if God didn't allow the world to continue, but stopped it with say Adam and Eve and never provided a means for their salvation, would all of us suffer in hell because we were originally in Adam and Eve? Our lives came from theirs and God places "innocent" babies under the sometimes horrendous conditions of this world, because all things are no longer "good" as originally created. OK, that's the end of my personal thoughts. The rest of the content of this post I can back up with Scripture.

So, in allowing the world to continue, Adam and Eve's lives get passed on to their descendants. Their descendants are now corrupted as ones who have rejected the rule of God over their lives.

So, no one in this world is innocent.

God cannot lie and he warned Adam and Eve not to eat of the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

Do I wish there was no evil and there was only good? Yes. And someday God has promised that He will get rid of evil entirely, and there will only be what is good and right, and love.

So, why did God allow first Satan and some of the angels to rebel against Him, and then allow this world to continue with rebellious creatures?

I believe here are two Bible based reasons. There may be many more.

First, He wanted people who would choose to love Him and live in relationship with Him - He did NOT want them to rebel but did give them the choice to rebel. In allowing life to continue after they rebelled, He seeks out those who will turn to Him and be saved from their rebellion against Him. That's a deep topic in itself.

Second, there is mention in the Bible that God is demonstrating how evil evil really is. By allowing evil to be unchecked it becomes clear that evil must be stopped. And He will one day stop it. Who is He demonstrating this to? I believe it is to us, who live on the earth, as well as to angels, both those who have also rebelled against Him and those who have not.

How can someone be assured that God is truly good and not some monster? Well, He has promised He will judge sin and He gave His Son to die as a substitute in our place so that whoever will turn to God, through Jesus will be forgiven, and live with Him forever where there is no evil or anything that is not good.

God's hatred for evil is what can give assurance that He Himself is good.

God is good and the source of all goodness. Otherwise, why would it be such a terrible thing to rebel against God? And why must He punish sin? In His goodness, He has offered a way of forgiveness.



Well, we people were created in His image, so He is the ultimate Person!
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If there is no God there is no evil, just likes and dislikes. https://www.google.com/amp/s/slate.com/technology/2011/09/does-evil-exist-neuroscientists-say-no.amp
 
TrailerParkTed said:
If there is no God there is no evil, just likes and dislikes. https://www.google.com/amp/s/slate.com/technology/2011/09/does-evil-exist-neuroscientists-say-no.amp
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Are you saying if there is a God, there IS evil?

If there is Good, there is no evil.

The idea that there can be both good AND evil is an aspect of imagination. Imagination is the proverbial "foreign land" into which the proverbial "prodigal son" wanders, looking for something to gain (something more). The fruit of the idea of combining exclusive opposites into one thing is the physical/material world, a completely faith-based phenomenon, experienced only by a mind which believes in it. Conversely, it is only experienced by a mind which does not believe in Good, and only Good, which is Christ.
 
Good1 said:
Here, an atheist questions Sam Harris' view on morality.


This overlaps what ive been saying about good. Ask ten people what is good and you get ten different answers. If "God is good", then you'll get nearly ten different Gods.

We need to raise our standards to discover a really good God, or a really Good god.

The only way for god to be Good is for all of our troubles to be voluntary, if not an abuse of our priveledges and /or abilities.

Imagination is an abuse of reality. If reality is the proverbial Good, this would explain how imagination is the proverbial evil.

The making of man would need to be from the domain of imagination, for a Good reality to still be good. It would need be made from our own imagination (abuse of mental capacity) for Good to remain still good.

This is the highest standard. It is beyond imagination, which would explain why any of us (pretty much all men) who value imagination cannot comprehend what is really Good.

Imagination proposes a domain where good and not-good ("evil") can co-exist (as in, "tree of the knowledge of good and evil"), which completely wipes out an objective Good.

The fruit of such a hybrid concept is tempting indeed.
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Wasted my time watching Sam Harris debate a few years ago , classic bullshitter fake academic LOL


 
FortuneTeller said:
Jordan is way more intelligent than Sam is. It's not even close.
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It's just bizarre , I suppose you have to suffer these clowns when you draw attention to your self like Peterson did . You can see Peterson getting really pissed off and frustrated in these debates with Harris , it's hilarious .
 
WWarrior said:
It's just bizarre , I suppose you have to suffer these clowns when you draw attention to your self like Peterson did . You can see Peterson getting really pissed off and frustrated in these debates with Harris , it's hilarious .
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"Suffering the clowns". Exactly.
 
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