Jigsaw June & July Leaderboard Results! A super scalper in our midst?

[JigsawTrading]

The Jigsaw June and July leaderboard results are in. In June 87 out of 282 traders (30%) were profitable and in July 105 out of 307 were profitable (34%).

We've also changed the public leaderboard, so that you can navigate to see prior months results. Click here to take a look.

For those that don't know, the leaderboard ranks traders based on a proprietary consistency algorithm, similar to that used in prop firms in deciding if a trader can go (or stay) live. In other words, consistent behavior without massive swings in P&L.

In June, Fenix knocked MrGekko off the top spot. A win rate of just under 50% and a nice, smooth equity curve for the month, winners bigger than losers and no blow-ups or off plan trades. MrGekko (who works at a prop firm) was more profitable but a bit more swingy. Nothing wrong with that as MrGekko isn't at the beginner stage at the firm, so we expect to see more risk than our algorithm allows.

In July, profits overall were down in real numbers but of course it is the summer time. The winner was quite interesting CoolRiverJoe with 55 trades and one loss, scalping a live account. He out at 4 contracts at the start of the month and scaling up to 10 by the end. Catching a tick a trade. Scalping but at fairly low frequency - just 1 or 2 trades a day.

Now - time will tell if he can keep this up - the fills are available for you to take a look. I won't comment further but I will join in the discussion as it's an interesting thing he's doing there. Just click on the leaderboard, click where is shows month and year and select the month you are interested in.

For more info on the equity curves, and other statistics, click here.

 

[CALLumbus]

In July, profits overall were down in real numbers but of course it is the summer time. The winner was quite interesting CoolRiverJoe with 55 trades and one loss, scalping a live account. He out at 4 contracts at the start of the month and scaling up to 10 by the end. Catching a tick a trade. Scalping but at fairly low frequency - just 1 or 2 trades a day.

Now - time will tell if he can keep this up - the fills are available for you to take a look. I won't comment further but I will join in the discussion as it's an interesting thing he's doing there. J

CoolRiverJoe already showed that he can keep this up... from time to time. He is already around since last year, doing exactly the same all the time. Scalping for 1 tick usually in the ZN, sometimes 2-4 ticks. With a position size of 4-10 contracts most of the time. There was no upscaling in July, just his usual fluctuations.

He shows up on the leaderbord every few months. In these months that he shows up, he presents some good consistency and profits in his trades.
But in the rest of the months, like for example January, March and April, he had pretty ugly losses, as we can see in the monthly statistics.

It is nothing dramatic, he wins some, loses some. But on average, he does not really seem to progress. In the long run probably a break even trader, if at all.
Thats not so bad, but not really the best example of a great tick scalper, who has the goal to make gains as consistent as possible, week by week and month by month.

Giving consistency awards to such traders is a bit misleading.

But kudos to you for the transparency and entertainment you bring here.

 

[Scataphagos]

Good lessons and info in these posts for all noobs and wannabes.

"Only ~ 35% profitable for the month"... that's including the sims who don't experience the gut of "fear and greed" that trading real money brings. And that's for just one month. Expand the numbers over several months, likely the "percentage of profitables are significantly less than 35%". (Sure, a trader has a good month and ends up in the 35% profitable group. But does he do so again next month? And the next? And over 6-months or the entire year?) I understand this quite well. Years ago when I ran my aspiring mutual fund timing service business, nobody gave me creds until I'd posted 3 YEARS of audited results in IBD and Barrons. After that, people were almost begging me to manage their money. Average account I accepted... ~$500K. (And while that isn't "serious money" in the pro money management business, it ain't chopped liver for a no-name guy in a 1-horse town who started his investment career with a $25/month bank-draft investment in the Templeton Growth Fund.)

IOW... "Very high win percentages" and "making big bank starting with small $$" are nothing more than (unrealistic) "sugar plumb dreams".

That said, it's not impossible to succeed...... but you have to REALLY KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING* and be highly disciplined about all aspects. (That eliminates 90% of the players right off the bat.)

*I've been on ET for a few years now (actually got started here because of video cards for multi-monitor displays), and while I'm sure there are others that never caught my attention, I've seen only a relative few who gave me the impression that they've "got it" in some form and enough to succeed.

Sorry, wish it were easier.

 

[JigsawTrading]

Sctaphagos - thanks for the comments.

The whole point of the leaderboard is to encourage & reward consistent behavior.

I have one foot in the prop trading world and one foot in retail - I work with people on both sides. Hence the push to get retail traders grinding it out. The algorithms we use to rate traders come from the prop world. In fact, a few of the traders on it are prop traders.

Getting a good rating on the leaderboard is not easy. You have to grind day in day out and not go off plan.

In the case of the July winner - it's one to keep an eye on. It's likely not a maintainable rate - but time will tell. There are short term trading (market making) techniques that have a high win-rate skew that is offset by the fact the targets are very small.

So in this case, we don't know if it's a good run for someone that has adopter these MM techiques OR someone taking a lot of risk to grab a tick.

He's putting his money where his mouth is though. He wasn't making big bank from small money. I have never at any point supported that, in fact my advice to all traders has always been. Get a track record and go prop. That said - high win rate is possible - it's just associated with very short term market making techniques that are not that rewarding on a per-trade basis. It's just a feature of a specific style. There's no secret in that.