Thats why I dont code for other people any more. Finding out what they want is just absurd. "i want a button... ohh that color is wrong... nevermind that it computes the future price of this contract. an entire industry of "agile consultants" has popped up, to convince companies better ways to "manage their resources" or some such draconion insult. and what does it devolve into? a bunch of people staring at a computer trying to type something in rather than you know, just doing it. you havent lived until you've seen a bunch of people in a corporate office just poised.. sorta blankly staring into space trying to look busy but they cant get away or else they are in trouble... I once saw a guy fall out in front of the computer and seize out when i worked at travelocity back in the day.. its not the healthiest lifestyle. people generally dont know any better. it was funny, i saw some kid waving his hands and pointing everywhere on the screen " and this is hooplah, and thats the diggidty logs over there". and the worst part is, its all physics and shit, and people think they know how it works. but none of the kids could describe a cpu, or how instruction sets worked. </end old programmer rant>