Is this fair? Is it common? I want to know.

calling a spade a spade is hardly crying. or is it? a voice crying in the wilderness...


they looooooooooove people who think like that. if there's enough grease to go around, anything goes. It's like hush money. Or they appeal to your ego: 'Im tough enough to beat you...' They laugh. You think they're stupid? They've seen thousands of guys come and go...

<a href="http://sun.soci.niu.edu/~benm/kampmann.html"><img src="http://sun.soci.niu.edu/~benm/creat.jpg"></img></a>


"Painting is a delicate matter that often contains a deception. It mirrors false facts. It misleads the on-lookers in a game of convention and perception......"
 
Once again, thank you to Harold Bradley for his work in attempting to bring competition to the one place where it should always be: the world's oldest and largest stock market.

I'm posting the article openly instead of just posting the link, because someone implied that trade-through's can't happen, and the article documents that they do.

The bit about 'freezing the book' is an eye-opener as well.

Failing Grades at the NYSE

Ananth Madhavan, a noted market structure scholar and managing director of ITG, recently told the New York Times that the NYSE “is sort of an historical accident.” Consistent with an emerging array of data, he suggested that a redesign of the NYSE “would not start with a floor…you would do it electronically.”
Richard Grasso, NYSE Chairman, responded in the same article that “blending human and technology in terms of providing services to customers, that’s what this is all about.”
The SEC attempted to resolve this apparent conflict between two powerful and competing viewpoints through adoption of Rule 11Ac1-5 last year. This rule compelled market centers to report monthly statistics that measure execution quality for small-order customers. In key measures of effective spread and speed of execution, the first month’s data indicated relatively poor NYSE performance. The exchange attributed the results to the data’s exclusion of institutional “blocks,” in one report.
This defense constituted a surprising irony. The NYSE traditionally relied on the promise of “price improvement” for “house painters and school bus drivers” as the pretext for internal rules and policies. Institutions long have complained that many of those policies undermined the primacy of limit orders on the exchange’s own book and the interests of the other “little guys” invested in the nation’s mutual funds.
Mounting evidence implies that intermediation imposed on customers of the NYSE carries high costs and perhaps illusory benefits. Moreover, its physical structure represents a visible “single point of failure” in our financial system.

Order Display Rules in Listed Stocks...Unfinished Business

Thus far, exchanges and ECNs have forestalled the extension of the Order Handling Rules (OHR) to the trading of listed stocks. Regulators cite the access fee conundrum as impeding “unfinished business” that would drive ECN listed order flow into the public quote.
Only Archipelago ECN now displays its listed orders in the NBBO through the ITS-CAES link offered by NASDAQ. Archipelago’s business decision to comply with the display rules extended a powerful additional tool to traders. Our traders realized trade cost savings of $9.4 million on $1 billion of listed Archipelago trades in the year’s first half and more than $220 million in eleven non-traditional venues over 18 months.
Despite Archipelago’s demonstrated efficacy, our traders express growing frustration at the interplay between ECN orders and exchange floors. Those frustrations echo the charges of “backing away” and “trade-throughs” that formerly dogged NASDAQ market makers.

Trade-Throughs

Archipelago’s decision to actively seek “best price” through ITS-linkage once again illuminated the problem of frequent apparent “trade-throughs” at both the NYSE and AMEX exchanges. A trade-through occurs when one “linked” market trades at an inferior price to another market’s price as reflected in the NBBO. Markets must respect or satisfy better prices available in competing markets as a condition of ITS participation.
The frequency of complaints about specialist handling of our orders, and complaints from other similarly confounded customers, prompted Archipelago to create a new audit trail for customers. Dubbed “whiner” software, Archipelago examined the conditions that generated many inquiries and then automated complaints to the exchange if three conditions exist:

· The order in the public quote is more than 100 shares;
· the order appears on the ARCA book (and in the NBBO), 15 seconds before a “regular way” print at the inferior price is published;
· and remains on the ARCA book (and as part of the NBBO) for 10 seconds after the inferior priced trade is reported.

The “whiner” software documented the following:

· A total of 201 366 individual securities recorded more than 20 complaints within a single day during 53 69 trading sessions from June 18 through August 31 October 4, 2001; NYSE complaints frequently exceed 1,000 a day for stocks traded on Archipelago.
· Nine Twenty securities generated more than 20 complaints in a day at least five times during the period. IBM exceeded 20 complaints on 18 25 days. AOL, C, MER and PFE on 11 days; MWD on eight nine days and MER on seven days. and JPM on eight days.
· Complaints for many stocks reach high double digits on any given day. KRB generated 90 trade-through complaints on June 27; MEL, 73 on August 9; PFE, 73 on September 5; IBM, 69 on October 3; MER, 68 on June 18; GSB, 68 on August 28; MER, 66 on June 27; KRB, 62 on June 25 and IBM, 60 on August 1.

One can infer only two possible explanations for this empirical data. Specialists either ignore obligations to satisfy the best price across all markets linked by ITS, or the human brain cannot keep pace with the trading demands of both an active crowd and electronic markets. Specialists have limited bandwidth and may make frequent mistakes, as did the specialists in KRB, IBM and MER.
Our experience regarding handling of listed orders at the specialist post has changed little over the years. We call the Institutional Hotline for redress. They promise to investigate and report back to us. Most often, we receive assurances that such trade-throughs were permissible under NYSE rules. On infrequent occasions, we merit price adjustments. Alternatively, officials report that “the specialist is swamped, he missed your order,” and sometimes that the trade required more than 15 seconds to post to the tape.

Specialists Can Freeze the Book

Some traditional brokers report increasing use by specialists of a practice known as “freezing the book.” The specialist declares an “unstable market” and refuses electronically delivered orders (DOT) until the market resolves, usually with a minor price adjustment. Such conditions need not be published nor announced. These trading “hiccups” reportedly occur in major listed stocks six or seven times a day. The “freeze” effectively protects the crowd’s order queue as if the electronic order did not exist.
We worry that specialists increasingly behave as market makers did prior to imposition of the Order Handling Rules. The SEC may be required to act yet again to enforce principles of best execution. Self-regulated markets seldom embrace “intruders” who threaten dominant market control. We hope that over time the data may yield more comfort that human intermediation creates quantifiable value for investors. In the meantime, the arguments put forth by Ananth Madhaven appear difficult to refute.



hsb


"You're not paranoid if the really are out to get you."
 
"Or they appeal to your ego: 'Im tough enough to beat you...' They laugh. You think they're stupid? They've seen thousands of guys come and go...".
.
Ego- "Those losers just didn't have what it takes. I'm different, I'm special.".
Yeah, right.
Sucker.
 
I read the article. I have traded exclusively NYSE except for the occasional lapse in judgement for 5 1/2 years. The system is NOT flawless. I will stipulate to that. The ARCA software, aptly dubbed the whiner, looked at print throughs across exchanges linked by ITS. I was refering to print throughs on the NYSE when my order was on the NYSE. I NEVER look at the regional exchanges as most often their bids and offers are fictious when you go to hit or take. I also was asking a question about what was 'fair' not stating a fact that specialists buy every 25 cents on the way down. Fair is a subjective term. I do not know what is fair or what is right. I never expect the specialist to bail me out of my losers or when the markets are roaring one way or the other and I am hooked, I do not expect my friendly specialist will step in and provide liquidity for me to get out. As a customer not a prop trader, maybe he should. I don't use the regionals also because I don't believe in fragmentation of markets. The main reason I don't trade NASDAQ. At least in NYSE all the orders go through one location giving the MOST participants the CHANCE to interact with that order.
 
I was just trying to short EP using island.My offer was one cent above the price.I was the only ecn there at the time.The bid rose two cents-one cent past my offer without giving me a fill.Then my offer dissappeared???????????
 
it's all good, baby.


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Since we trade maybe 200 attempts per day, 100 trades per day, and have maybe 1 legitimate complaint per week, that amounts to 1/5 of 1 percent....although not good, it's certainly not a reason to spend too much time worrying about.

We have the opportunity to participate at such a great level that we should be pretty happy. Never before in the history of the markets have traders been able to join in the game without buying expensive exchange memberships. The playing field on the NYSE is pretty level, and obviously lucrative (or so many of us wouldn't trade there).

Don
 
"We have the opportunity to participate at such a great level that we should be pretty happy. Never before in the history of the markets have traders been able to join in the game without buying expensive exchange memberships. The playing field on the NYSE is pretty level, and obviously lucrative (or so many of us wouldn't trade there)."

- there is "obviously" ridiculous about this statement
 
it's better to have your pocket picked than to be pistol whipped, right?

I don't think many love the free enterprise system more than I do. That's why I am so verbose about integrity and competition (competition being the check on lack of integrity) being its underpinning -- the lack of it is it's undoing.

If we keep rationalizing away the problems that need to be addressed, I don't think 'collapse' is too big a word. Look around!
 
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