How to scope out where other scalpers are?

[Marc to Market]

Every now and then I'll be scalping a stock and before my trade ever gets executed, I see a few prints ahead of my order by a hundredth of a cent. For example, I'll bid .4605 and immediately after, before I even get a single fill, I'll see .4606 on the tape. SOMEBODY KNOWS WHERE MY ORDER IS! How is this possible if you're using an ECN or market maker that doesn't make their order book public?

This is the one thing about scalping that has been driving me crazy. I'd give anything to figure it out. I know not EVERYONE has this knowledge, but a few scalpers out there do, as it happens to me every once and a while and I know it's no coincidence.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Marc

 

[jay567]

u can hide your order on island so it doesn't display on L2 but it will show on the island book

 

[TKOtrader]

you can enter a price 4 decimals deep ? (.4605) i didnt know that......... (i'm a newby)

 

[smokey_mcPaat]

yeah, another reason not to trade the nazcrap.

 

[ThoughtfulFog]

Is it possible the market maker is front-running/pennying you? Happens to me all day long on the NYSE.

 

[bungrider]

Quote from Marc to Market:

Every now and then I'll be scalping a stock and before my trade ever gets executed, I see a few prints ahead of my order by a hundredth of a cent. For example, I'll bid .4605 and immediately after, before I even get a single fill, I'll see .4606 on the tape. SOMEBODY KNOWS WHERE MY ORDER IS!...

Yeah, you know what's even MORE annoying??

When you post a BID or an OFFER outside the market on a viewable ECN (which is pretty much all of them these days) and some SCHMUCK piles on size on top of your order...sometimes it happens so instantly i swear it must be a computer program that pegs automatically...

 

[bungrider]

PS - if you're using 4 decimals, you're probably pretty annoying yourself...

 

[goldenarm]

I know that Momentum Securities software (called Lightspeed) and Sonic Trading software has an option to automatically chisel the inside bid or offer when you place your order. These bids or offers that you enter can also automatically adjust as the inside market moves until the orders are executed or canceled. This is a preset option which can be set to pretty much any increments.

 

[VOLUME]

Many firms have shave programs built into their systems. It will automatically place you at the best bid/offer. That crap was annoying back in the fraction days, but now that the "spread" is a penny there's no point.

 

[OVERtheLINE]

its needle dick liquidity trading...........shouldnt be classified as trading,,,,should be more like "carping"