Giving power to the people.

[Grob109]

since the Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds each want power why not set up an economic infrastructure for each. Two of the three were not allies of SH. Those most opposed to the US and the UN also fall into this third group.

Help each group independantly and reward their progress with more help. Stabilization has always been the cheapest cure. having Iraq return to it's indepentent tribal roots might even set an example in other near east hot spots.

I think the Arab League could go far in supporting these three parts of Iraq as sort of self interest colonies where economic interests could go far to get trade, employment, and GTP rolling (Gross Tribal product).

Iraq is a debtor nation (300B) with 15B oil production annually if it is operational.

Three sectors solving their local problems is not an 87B problem. Getting three disparate cultures to meld is a lot more than an 87B problem.

The US footprint is shrinking, IRC is leaving the worst areas and NFP's are cutting back.

The foreign help for US adversaries pouring into Iraq could easily be focussed into one of the three areas. We could loose in that area (Sunni) and let it turn out as it wants. We could win in the other two areas by giving autonomy rapidly to the Shiites and Kurds. It would be like cutting your losses and letting your Kurds and Shiites run.

The people who the Iraq's are indebted to would love the idea that they could have stability sooner so they could get back to collecting debt payments. The US holding them all at bay is not what they want to continue.

It's a great idea to enable local tribal autonomy by rewarding local progress and it makes getting out a win win too. Making Iraq a nation is not in the cards. Just make it peaceful and tribal once again. Think economically for a change.

Call 201-456-1414 and let them in on the secret.

 

[Grob109]

About 10,000 troops from turkey are going to arrive. Since they are Muslims and closely related to the Sunnis, It would be a great idea to link thm with the sunni police in training nd deployment. Not a good Idea for them to go to the Shiite and Kurd sectors a all.

The shiites and Iranian Shiites could set up an international cooperation as well. Lots of common inteests.

I see the Kurds have loose affiiations in the north with other trading Kurds in nearby nations. Why not pair these groups up for rehabilitation purposes.

The debts owed to France and Russia really needs to be serviced by the debtors. There is nothing more efficient than letting teams of people form up to do work out deals.

On the other hand the US teams estimating the rehab costs ar really screwing up. A northern cement factory the US thought would take 15Mil to restart is up and running by locals at a cost of 80,000.

Some US soldiers are requesting that US folks sent them school packages to hand out to kids as they restart schools. We should send about a million packages before the end of the year. I wish military bases had drop off points for everyone to get their packages collected.

Lets get the troops back home. These rotations with reservists , etc., really wreck the home life of a lot of people. I think we ought to help returning vets at every opportunity. giving someone a hand to get into investing to make up for lost time is a great idea too.

Foriegn business people tried to broker a deal before we invaded. Lets get together with those interested parties and fix what ever we can. Exciles who sat on the sidelines, are now backed by the US. I think the pro active peace oriented business people should be allowed to step in and get on with getting the Iraq economy rolling.

There are old freighters all over the place. Lets fill them up with the munitions that are stock piled and unguarded and ship the stuff to reclaiming facilities around the world. All that metal and chemicals can be converted to economic goods like building supplies and fertilizers. The less war materiale out there the better.


The Swedish are sending knocked down wooden chairs in boxes to Afghanistan. They screw them back together for furniture in girls schools. Why would it be so difficult to get 100 million people to spend a few hours making stuff to send to other people? I bet anyone could find some really nice unused quality stuff that another person might find useful. What does it cost to ship 10 tons of useful stuff to a community somewhere?

 

[gms]

Quote from Grob109:

What does it cost to ship 10 tons of useful stuff to a community somewhere?

This is answered in those late night "save the children" spots on TV, the part in those broadcasts where they have the guy standing beside a huge 100 pound assortment of canned and boxed goods. That's when they tell you that you could send that much food (though it's not the most nutritous food if you notice), and feed a family of four for a month for something like $20. Not only that, but the unspoken part is that the same $20 also apparently covers the cost of the flight and manpower needed to get the food to the delivery point. So, evidently the answer to your question is, "not really as much as others would have us think when you strip out a bunch of markups". What I'd like to know is, how come nobody will permit me to feed my family of four for 20 bucks a month and have enough change left over for air fare?

 

[Free Thinker]

"What does it cost to ship 10 tons of useful stuff to a community somewhere?"

i was in the trucking business for years. it costs about $1 per mile to ship truckload container loads. that is 50000 lbs of product.if you had to ship by air it is 3 times that.

 

[laziz314159]

Quote from Grob109:

since the Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds each want power why not set up an economic infrastructure for each. Two of the three were not allies of SH. Those most opposed to the US and the UN also fall into this third group.

Help each group independantly and reward their progress with more help. Stabilization has always been the cheapest cure. having Iraq return to it's indepentent tribal roots might even set an example in other near east hot spots.

I think the Arab League could go far in supporting these three parts of Iraq as sort of self interest colonies where economic interests could go far to get trade, employment, and GTP rolling (Gross Tribal product).

Iraq is a debtor nation (300B) with 15B oil production annually if it is operational.

Three sectors solving their local problems is not an 87B problem. Getting three disparate cultures to meld is a lot more than an 87B problem.

The US footprint is shrinking, IRC is leaving the worst areas and NFP's are cutting back.

The foreign help for US adversaries pouring into Iraq could easily be focussed into one of the three areas. We could loose in that area (Sunni) and let it turn out as it wants. We could win in the other two areas by giving autonomy rapidly to the Shiites and Kurds. It would be like cutting your losses and letting your Kurds and Shiites run.

The people who the Iraq's are indebted to would love the idea that they could have stability sooner so they could get back to collecting debt payments. The US holding them all at bay is not what they want to continue.

It's a great idea to enable local tribal autonomy by rewarding local progress and it makes getting out a win win too. Making Iraq a nation is not in the cards. Just make it peaceful and tribal once again. Think economically for a change.

Call 201-456-1414 and let them in on the secret.

This makes a lot of sense. The only reason a strong dictator like Hussein 'evolved' there is that Iraq is a bizarre result of whimsical british partitioning, lines drawn without regard for their 'naturality'.

Furthermore, it would solve the extant memetic conflict; i.e., hierarchical massive-show-of-force vs. guerilla tactics. It's not just a military thing, you can see the same problem in larger aid orgs (e.g. UN) vs. smaller localised NGO's (e.g. shi'ite aid orgs from Iran).

To top it all off, repartitioning along reasonable geo-social lines would make Russia a whole lot less nervous about our presence there. This could turn into a proxy battle like us-funded mujahadin in Afghanistan vs. USSR, but in reverse, if the US is not careful (witness the use of a tank-killer (probably DU) rpg slug of unknown origin to kill an Abrams M-1 last week).

Best Regards,
laziz