Federal Government tells Federal Judge "Screw off"

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/07/14/moussaoui/index.html

I always thought that we had "three" branches of government that provided a "checks and balances" system. However, it appears now that the judicial system only applies to the people, not the government.

So if this goes up to the Supreme Court and the Justice Dept. still says, "Screw off," then what will happen then?

The federal judge has the right to drop the case. I'm sure all hell would break lose, especially in NYC.

Of course, in a worse case scenerio, the military takes orders from the executive branch and not the judicial branch, so that would mean the judicial system couldn't really enforce anything.

What are they going to do -- hold the U.S. government in contempt of court?

 
I think here what is being discussed by the judge and the prosecutors is whether the defendant has a right to question a witness able to testify as to the defendant's innocence of the crime of which he is accused.

The government prosecutor's are exercising their right, based on a 'national security interest' argument, to try and win their case. You don't just expect them to roll over to the judge's ruling do you? That's why there is a court of appeals.

The appeals court will make a ruling on this after the trial judge rules on whether she will dismiss charges or not in response to the government's non-compliance with her order.

I think it will be settled before it gets to the Supreme Court.

Bruce, BWTHDIK
 
There's nothing incorrect about what's happening so far. The executive branch (in this case the government prosecutors) hasn't refused to comply with an order of the US Supreme Court.

Prosecution and defendent attorneys refuse to immediately comply with lower court rulings all the time pending appeals to higher courts. In this case it sounds like prosecutors just forced the lower court judge to make an official ruling on this in order to give the court of appeals the chance to make a ruling.

Besides, you don't really think the judicial branch as a whole has generally demonstrated itself to be any better than the other two branches, do you?
 
They can refuse the court's order on competing constitutional grounds. The executive is charged with safegaurding the public welfare which has precedence over individual liberty. However, If the highest court rules, they can't refuse without precipitating a constitutional crisis. The President would have to order the Justice Dept. to conform to the (Supreme) court's order. If he does not, in such a case, were he to not execute the laws as he is duty bound, he could face impeachment.

Outside of impeachment, the President can only be removed from power by methods in Amendment XXV:

Section 1. In case of the removal of the President from office or of his death or resignation, the Vice President shall become President.

Section 2. Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.


Section 3. Whenever the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that he is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, and until he transmits to them a written declaration to the contrary, such powers and duties shall be discharged by the Vice President as Acting President.


Section 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.


Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.
 
Quote from dgabriel:

They can refuse the court's order on competing constitutional grounds. The executive is charged with safegaurding the public welfare which has precedence over individual liberty. However, If the highest court rules, they can't refuse without precipitating a constitutional crisis. The President would have to order the Justice Dept. to conform to the (Supreme) court's order. If he does not, in such a case, were he to not execute the laws as he is duty bound, he could face impeachment.

Outside of impeachment, the President can only be removed from power by methods in Amendment XXV:

Section 1. In case of the removal of the President from office or of his death or resignation, the Vice President shall become President.

Section 2. Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.


Section 3. Whenever the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that he is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, and until he transmits to them a written declaration to the contrary, such powers and duties shall be discharged by the Vice President as Acting President.


Section 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.


Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.

translation:geesystheycanfukyouastheywantmakenomistake:-(
 
This is a pretrial procedural ruling from a federal district court judge, hardly the stuff of great constitutional drama. It is kind of an interesting issue, whether the defendant can question another terrorist held in secret custody, complicated by the fact the defendant is acting as his own counsel. The government has obvious reasons for not wanting these guys to be chatting, but it would certainly be highly relevant for the defendant if a top Al Queda terrorist says he was not part of their crew.

The obvious solution is drop the criminal case and throw his ass in gitmo.
 
The Sixth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States could not be clearer. The accused has a right "to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor." The reason for the amendment is quite simple, and incredibly important.

When a person is on trial the entire power of the State is arrayed against him. The government has incredible resources at its disposal to make a case against the accused. Federal police agencies such as the FBI, DEA and Secret Service, state and local police agencies, the military and the intelligence apparatus can all be used in the prosecution — along with the nearly infinite (at least compared to the resources of the accused) resources of the Department of Justice's attorneys themselves.

The deck is stacked heavily aganist the accused when the entire power of the State is focused on convicting him of a crime. The accused has few protections — but those protections are extremely powerful. While the State is permitted to bring witnesses to testify against the accused, the accused is entitled to confront those witnesses and cross-examine them. While the State is permitted to bring just about any witnesses it wants to testify against the accused, the accused is also entitled to bring any witnesses he wants to testify on his behalf.

This is a very important point. The case against the accused may be extremely strong, but there may be a single witness — or several witnesses — who can exonerate him in the eyes of the jury. It is clearly not in the State's interest to allow the accused to call witnesses in his defense, but it is allowed anyway. It is allowed anyway because the process would not be fair otherwise.

The Sixth Amendment of the Constitution states, in only a few sentences, some of the essential rights every person on trial in the United States of America enjoys. These rights seperate America from Pakistan. These rights seperate America from Saudi Arabia, from Russia, from Hungary, from South American and Central Asian dictatorships alike. These rights seperate America from the terrorists it fights.

These rights have served as the bedrock of American democracy. They have served as the rocks with which an innocent man can slay the goliath of State power that has wrongly accused him. They have served as politically inconvenient but essential guardians of individual liberty and justice for all.

Amendment VI reads as follows:

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.


Attorney General John Ashcroft does not like the Sixth Amendment, just as he does not like the First Amendment or the Fourth Amendment or any other amendment.

Zacarias Moussaoui has been accused by the Department of Justice of being a member of al-Qaeda and a conspirator in the September 11 attacks on the United States. He was arrested prior to September 11 and the DOJ quickly decided that he was probably a member of the conspiracy to attack the US. They held him for quite some time as a material witness, and then decided to charge him with crimes related to membership in al-Qaeda.

The crimes that Moussaoui are charged with are serious. Moussaoui is accused of not only attempting to wage war against the United States of America, but in planning to kill civilians — protected persons — in the process. He is accused of, if nothing else, war crimes.

We can not lose sight of the fact, however, that Moussaoui is only charged with a crime. He has not been convicted. He is an individual, and an individual with rights. He was arrested in the United States of America. The Constitution of the United States of America applies. He is entitled to equal protection under the laws, just as everyone else in this country is. If the Sixth Amendment is to apply to you and me then it must apply to Moussaoui.

If we allow ourselves to vacate the Constitution in certain cases then we embark on a slippery slope of exceptions to sacred law. We allow ourselves to make ever more exceptions until none of us enjoy the protections of the Constitution. Even worse, we risk having the protections of the Constitution apply only to a special elite — proles like you and I don't get protection, but those favored by those in power do.

At some point during his trial Moussaoui stated that he wished to question Ramzi bin al-Shaibah, an alleged senior member of al-Qaeda. bin al-Shaibah is specifically mentioned in the indictment aganist Moussaoui as a co-conspirator. Moussaoui stated that he wished to have bin al-Shaibah testify on his behalf to attempt to convince the court that Moussaoui had nothing to do with the September 11 attacks.

The credibility that a jury may attach to the testimony of a purported member of al-Qaeda is subject to interpertation. What is not subject to interpertation, however, is Moussaoui's right to have anyone he chooses testify in his defense.

Put yourself in the accused's shoes for a moment. Imagine yourself being arrested and charged with a heinous crime — perhaps a double murder. Suppose that the State says in its indictment of you that you're a member of a satanic cult that engages in double murders as part of some ritual. They also arrest several other people and say that they're also members of the cult.

Would you not like to have other members of this "cult" testify in your defense? Perhaps you've never met them before, or perhaps you simply want them to testify that there was no murder, or that you took no part in it, or that you were never a member of their cult... Would you not be entitled to having these accused criminals testify on your behalf? Perhaps the jury wouldn't believe them, perhaps they would. Isn't it your right to try?

John Ashcroft doesn't think so. John Ashcroft thinks that he should be able to call any witnesses he likes to testify against you. But you should only be able to call witnesses to testify for you that he likes, that he approves of. Is this fair? No, of course it isn't.

You and I know that Ashcroft's position is unfair. We also know that it's unconstitutional, despite the fact that John Ashcroft has been personally sworn to uphold the constitution as a condition of holding his office. U.S. District Judge Leonie Brinkema agrees with us, not with Mr. Ashcroft.

Judge Brinkema issued a ruling in January stating that Moussaoui must be allowed to examine bin al-Shaibah as a witness in his defense. Judge Brinkema ruled that due process and the Constitution demands such an examination.

con'd
 
John Ashcroft appealed Judge Brinkema's ruling. He said that bin al-Shaibah must not be allowed to testify because such testimony would "certainly" violate national security. Because of Ashcroft's appeal Brinkema was forced to indefinitely postpone Moussaoui's trial — it couldn't continue until Moussaoui was allowed to depose witnesses in his favor.

Ashcroft's appeal was denied on a technicality — but the door was left open for him to appeal later. With Ashcroft's appeal denied, Judge Brinkema demanded to know whether Ashcroft would comply with her order.

The Department of Justice has now said, as Reuters reports, that it will refuse Judge Brinkema's ruling. It will simply ignore it. It will not give Moussaoui the ability to question witnesses in his favor. It will do no such thing, it has said.

"The deposition, which would involve an admitted and unrepentant terrorist (the defendant) questioning one of his al Qaeda confederates would necessarily result in the unauthorized disclosure of classified information," the government said.

That's right. The government says it cannot allow Moussaoui to depose bin al-Shaibah because classified information may be leaked. But leaked to whom? The questioning can be conducted behind closed doors. Only the defendant, the witness, the judge and the lawyers on the case need hear the testimony. The lawyers trying the case already have security clearances — secret evidence is already being used at this trial. The judge, of course, is cleared. So who's to get classified information? Moussaoui or bin al-Shaibah? Well, they're both already in custody.

Now that the Department of Justice has refused to obey the judge's decision the judge doesn't have very many options. The judge can drop some charges against Moussaoui, or she can order all mention of bin al-Shaibah removed from the indictment. More likely, however, she can drop all charges against Moussaoui on the grounds that he cannot be given a fair, constitutional trial if Ashcroft refuses to respect the Constitution of the United States — the very same document he has sworn an oath to uphold.

If charges are dismissed against Moussaoui and he is actually guilty, then justice is certainly not served by allowing him to get away scott free. But justice would also not be served by the alternative. The Department of Justice has already stated publicly that if charges against Moussaoui are dismissed because of pesky constitutional "technicalities" that they will simply have him declared an "enemy combatant" and arrested by the military.

Once Moussaoui is arrested by the military, which will almost certainly happen if charges against him are dropped, he will lose all rights and protections under the Constitution, at least according to the Bush Administration. In reality, the Constitution would still apply — but in practice it would not.

The government cannot simply try someone in a civil court with the full protection of the Constitution until something goes wrong, and then decide to switch systems midstream. It cannot suddenly decide to deny Constitutional protection to someone because it looks like they may lose. It can't act like a spoiled schoolchild, changing the rules of the game mid-play. Not only would the Bush Administration's strategy in the case against Moussaoui violate the Sixth Amendment of the Constitution, it would also violate the Fifth Amendment double jeopardy clause, which reads "nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb."

Of course, trial for Moussaoui by military commission would violate more than that single clause of the Fifth Amendment. It would violate nearly the entire Fifth Amendment, which reads:

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

It's easy to justify the vacating of certain Constitutional rights for extreme cases like Moussaoui. In so doing, however, we forget two essential facts. First, Moussaoui may well be innocent. We don't know what the evidence against him is — we only know that the government says he is guilty. The government says many people are guilty when they are, in fact, innocent. Why should the situation in terrorism cases be any different, especially when there is such significant political pressure to find and punish someone, anyone?

Second, we forget that our legal system is based on precedent. If they can ignore the Constitution in the prosecution of Moussaoui then they can ignore the Constitution when they finally come for us. If they can vacate the Sixth and Fifth Amendments in going after suspected terrorists then they can vacate the Sixth and Fifth Amendments when prosecuting you for some crime you did not commit. That's how our legal system works, for better or worse.

The fact is that the Constitution is there for a reason. It's written like it is for a reason. It's written specifically to protect us from government. It's written to prevent people like John Ashcroft from railroading American citizens and visitors to America. It's written to protect us from the enormous, overwhelming power of the State.

If we don't have the Constitution to protect us — if the government doesn't respect the Constitution and the citizenry don't react strongly to protect the Constitution — then we have nothing to protect us. If we don't have the Constitution then we're no different than any other country. If we don't have the Constitution then anything can happen here. If we don't have the Constitution then any despot can take power in an election and use the incredible power of the Federal Government in order to mantain power, stomping on anyone necessary with the giant jackboot of the poorly named Department of Justice.

We must not allow this situation to get any worse than it already is. The Constitution must be protected. Zacarias Moussaoui, no matter how much we may detest him, must be allowed to call witnesses in his defense. He must not be tried by a military commission made up of employees of the President — people who are therefore beholden to the President and must feel pressure to vote as he wants. He must be tried by a jury of his peers, with all the protections the Constitution and Common Law afford.
 
No doubt this administration will be studied by every law student for decades to come.

Of course, that is, unless the administration tries to block it. :D

(Don't blame me -- my vote wasn't counted). :D
 
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