Do you tell people you're a trader?

[Cutten]

Quote from flat5:

The sign of the expectation of a bet is one way to look at it, but I don't think it's the common view. I play irrefutably positive expectation poker and I'll be damned if I can convince even a few people that it's not gambling.

Keeping it in quantitative terms but trying to match that up to how people "feel" about it, I think it has more to do with the magnitude of the "risk of ruin," (suitably defined) which of course still exists for positive expectation bets, and is a function not only of expectation but also the ratio of bet size and bankroll, as we call it in the gambling world. I believe you call that "money management."

I think people associate gambling with any activity with a significant risk of ruin, even if it has positive expectation. If I can bet $1 to win $100 on 1:98 odds, and have a $3 bankroll to work from, I think most people would think of that as gambling, even though the expectation of each bet is positive. Because I'm very likely to go belly up if I play the game.

By this logic, anything with risk of financial loss is gambling. So real estate development, banking, insurance, venture capital, no win/no fee legal work, running for political office etc is all "gambling". Clearly it's more complicated than that.

People view something as gambling when you are risking money to make money, with no perceived "productive" activity underlying the money-making. So real estate development is not gambling, despite being very high risk, because you are building something concrete (excuse the pun). Correctly anticipating the cards someone is holding in a game is not viewed as "productive".

Now it becomes clear why ignorant people view trading as gambling - they do not understand the productivity of liquidity provision or efficient pricing of assets. They think trading is a zero sum game. To be fair to the public, many traders and financial market participants are equally ignorant and share their view.

 

[flat5]

Quote from Hydroblunt:

This pretty much explains your inability to differentiate between trading & gambling.

Get your head out of your a$$, you might figure out why day traders are making money in the market while the average joe shmoe investors like you are losing it.

Such histrionics. Are you female?

I've never lost a dime investing, but I've really lost energy for responding to childish garbage like this. Over and out.

 

[mogul]

I must say flat5 is right on, I guess that divides the camp if ET:ers


speculation is all about gaining wealth through risk, some speculation is more measured than other

for those that justify their trading with the idea that you "provide vital liquidity to the market"...please...that may be a side effect and what does indeed make the markets work, but how many speculatoes enter the arena to provide that service?

poker is the perfect analogy, just that the players are vastly greater in number, so with every trade, or "hand" you may not directly be taking from someone else, but given enough time and number of trades that is exactly how it works

 

[mogul]

Quote from Cutten:


People view something as gambling when you are risking money to make money, with no perceived "productive" activity underlying the money-making. So real estate development is not gambling, despite being very high risk

No but real estate speculation, in particularly flipping is not productive in the same sense

Now it becomes clear why ignorant people view trading as gambling - they do not understand the productivity of liquidity provision or efficient pricing of assets. They think trading is a zero sum game. To be fair to the public, many traders and financial market participants are equally ignorant and share their view. [/B]

Don't confuse the end-result with the inention of each individual market participant

if you honestly trade in order to infuse liquidity to the market then more power to you, but I have a hunch that you are alone in those noble intentions

 

[Thunderdog]

If I may side step the original issue for a moment.

If a trader enjoys what he is doing and is not somehow unfairly hurting anyone in the process, then, quite frankly, who gives a shit what other people think? Few occupations afford the opportunity to live independently of the goodwill of others. Trading well is one of them. That has value. Worrying about what others may think diminishes that value.

 

[jaronimo]

Quote from Thunderdog:

If I may side step the original issue for a moment.

If a trader enjoys what he is doing and is not somehow unfairly hurting anyone in the process, then, quite frankly, who gives a shit what other people think? Few occupations afford the opportunity to live independently of the goodwill of others. Trading well is one of them. That has value. Worrying about what others may think diminishes that value.

Some people get their feelings hurt if they are not accepted by others. To be a really successful trader I know you have to think differently than the rest, that includes not caring what they think about trading because most of them dont have a clue what trading is about anyway.

When you tell them you are a trader be proud, confident, and smiling because you know something they cant understand.