Go to a good prop shop-- ask maverick74 here for recomendations-- a real prop shop that teaches you a real edge-- there are edges with routing, dark pools and exploiting loopholes in HFT etc--- you just need to be taught---- put up the minimum and go for it--- if you are still struggling after a year, try another business, good luck! surf
At a Crossroads on Trading... Hope Someone can Help!
- Thread starter LittleTraderguy
- Start date
Yeah like Surfy sez, you might try prop. I've heard these guys may be able to help (I don't know from experience, I'm an Engineer and have made a great living from it! 
). And ol' Don Bright posts here often:
http://www.stocktrading.com/
Good luck!
). And ol' Don Bright posts here often:http://www.stocktrading.com/
Good luck!
I'm sure my advice is going to get lost in here. If a CBOT member is willing to help you that is what you should do.
There are two parts to trading:
1) Having something that works
2) Building the relationships to leverage number 1 as much as you can.
Relationships get you low fees, high risk limits, product access and.. trust. Even for those of us doing lots of HFT - from the outside it seems that tech/infrastructure is the most important thing but everything is DOA if you can't get a good clearing agreement and market access because nobody has ever heard of you.
There are two parts to trading:
1) Having something that works
2) Building the relationships to leverage number 1 as much as you can.
Relationships get you low fees, high risk limits, product access and.. trust. Even for those of us doing lots of HFT - from the outside it seems that tech/infrastructure is the most important thing but everything is DOA if you can't get a good clearing agreement and market access because nobody has ever heard of you.
for whatever is worth...
1) finish school, taking a break and thinking you will finish it later might never come; things happen in life that will derail things.
2) Financial Services is a small world, network, network, network... so if you get offered an internship this summer at CBOT, take it... you will learn more than you think and the networking aspect is just great.
3) knowledge and education will come from all sources, prop shop will be good, on your own will be good, in the end you will need to find the method that will suit your personality and portfolio/account size. I am always looking for new ways to see the markets, and as such i keep an open mind to everything that comes my way in my search for understanding.
4) if you go to CBOT, I say rates and index pits would be of interest, that and physical commodities. I solidified a lot of knowledge from actually listening to the SP's and Rates pits via "TradeBondFutures" room... I did that for 6 months, to me it was $$$ well spent as it added to my understanding further.
5) If you are going to risk anything to "learn", please risk only 20-25% of what you have saved and risk it wisely. I would be wary of "services" and "educators", they are all BS for the most part.
6) the biggest thing about trading IMO is finding your niche, what do you want to trade, what are your objectives, etc. Create a plan for yourself for the next 5 years in terms of trading with goals and objectives and go from there. It is good to have a roadmap, it helps when you gt caught up on things and review it an realize you are either ahead or behind, and then adjust accordingly.
1) finish school, taking a break and thinking you will finish it later might never come; things happen in life that will derail things.
2) Financial Services is a small world, network, network, network... so if you get offered an internship this summer at CBOT, take it... you will learn more than you think and the networking aspect is just great.
3) knowledge and education will come from all sources, prop shop will be good, on your own will be good, in the end you will need to find the method that will suit your personality and portfolio/account size. I am always looking for new ways to see the markets, and as such i keep an open mind to everything that comes my way in my search for understanding.
4) if you go to CBOT, I say rates and index pits would be of interest, that and physical commodities. I solidified a lot of knowledge from actually listening to the SP's and Rates pits via "TradeBondFutures" room... I did that for 6 months, to me it was $$$ well spent as it added to my understanding further.
5) If you are going to risk anything to "learn", please risk only 20-25% of what you have saved and risk it wisely. I would be wary of "services" and "educators", they are all BS for the most part.
6) the biggest thing about trading IMO is finding your niche, what do you want to trade, what are your objectives, etc. Create a plan for yourself for the next 5 years in terms of trading with goals and objectives and go from there. It is good to have a roadmap, it helps when you gt caught up on things and review it an realize you are either ahead or behind, and then adjust accordingly.
The pits are dead. You'll blow the $50k in no time if you go prop. Use the placement services offered by your undergrad college and get a job and trade on the side. CTC and the other firms mentioned aren't going to give you a gig unless you've got significant maths or coding experience.
What is your GPA? What school?
E-3 pay is $25-35k, and it's doubtful you were E-3, so I find it hard to believe you saved $50k after a single tour.
What is your GPA? What school?
E-3 pay is $25-35k, and it's doubtful you were E-3, so I find it hard to believe you saved $50k after a single tour.
Hey Gents,
Tilt2- Thanks for the encouragement
Mspkash1- So you were in the same boat as me? What did you decide to do and how did it work out for you?
Chicagodon- I know what you mean by work for free for those guys, but time is so valuable, I'm just exploring other options.
Marketsurfer- Thanks, I'll shoot maverick74 a message.
garachen- The consensus seems to be that the pits are dead, and I know what you mean by network but I would consider this great networking too. I think you can tell a lot about a person by their posts. Anyway, I feel this forum and you guys have a lot to teach me. I've already learned a lot and this is day 2!
ofthomas- I'll definitely finish school, I wouldn't drop out to trade, that's like putting all your eggs in a basket...made of needles. Nothing against someone who has the balls to do that, but that's not me. I'm just debating what to do with this last Summer.
Atticus-
Pits are dead, Prop Shops won't take me, kinda my main concern. That's why I was going to spend this summer teaching myself programming and more statistics, to make myself more appealing to Prop Shops.
My School- UIC. GPA- 3.8 Major GPA- 4.0
Regarding how I saved $50,000
I don't know what you mean by I wasn't E-3, in the Marines, everybody and their mother is an E-3 in the first couple years (Unless your a Turd...then your a private...or your a cocksucker or PT junkie...or Intel... then you a Sergeant)
I spent about 3 years on Active Duty, and the thing about Reserves is when they get activated, they also get paid Housing Allowance and other benefits, and in Chicago that's like an extra 1300-1400 a month. On top of that I was always Hustling, I call it that immigrant Hustle. When the other Marines wanted to go get drunk, they would pay me to take their duty. I was also a hell of Barracks Barber (The Best). I was pretty much getting an extra paycheck every paycheck for a while. Plus I grew up poor,so I didn't really need to spend my money on anything.
A disclaimer- I did save up about 10,000 from High School though, working at Jewel. I hustled there too and saved up money, they gave me crazy hours cuz I was always busting my ass. So I guess it wasn't all Military.
Tilt2- Thanks for the encouragement
Mspkash1- So you were in the same boat as me? What did you decide to do and how did it work out for you?
Chicagodon- I know what you mean by work for free for those guys, but time is so valuable, I'm just exploring other options.
Marketsurfer- Thanks, I'll shoot maverick74 a message.
garachen- The consensus seems to be that the pits are dead, and I know what you mean by network but I would consider this great networking too. I think you can tell a lot about a person by their posts. Anyway, I feel this forum and you guys have a lot to teach me. I've already learned a lot and this is day 2!
ofthomas- I'll definitely finish school, I wouldn't drop out to trade, that's like putting all your eggs in a basket...made of needles. Nothing against someone who has the balls to do that, but that's not me. I'm just debating what to do with this last Summer.
Atticus-
Pits are dead, Prop Shops won't take me, kinda my main concern. That's why I was going to spend this summer teaching myself programming and more statistics, to make myself more appealing to Prop Shops.
My School- UIC. GPA- 3.8 Major GPA- 4.0
Regarding how I saved $50,000
I don't know what you mean by I wasn't E-3, in the Marines, everybody and their mother is an E-3 in the first couple years (Unless your a Turd...then your a private...or your a cocksucker or PT junkie...or Intel... then you a Sergeant)
I spent about 3 years on Active Duty, and the thing about Reserves is when they get activated, they also get paid Housing Allowance and other benefits, and in Chicago that's like an extra 1300-1400 a month. On top of that I was always Hustling, I call it that immigrant Hustle. When the other Marines wanted to go get drunk, they would pay me to take their duty. I was also a hell of Barracks Barber (The Best). I was pretty much getting an extra paycheck every paycheck for a while. Plus I grew up poor,so I didn't really need to spend my money on anything.
A disclaimer- I did save up about 10,000 from High School though, working at Jewel. I hustled there too and saved up money, they gave me crazy hours cuz I was always busting my ass. So I guess it wasn't all Military.
I just wouldn't want to see you miss out on getting some very valuable introductions. Yeah, pits are pretty dead but a lot of those guys are still extremely well connected. Think about it. Many of the larger successfull trading companies in Chicago have as a founding member someone from the pits.
It depends on what your ultimate goal is. If you just want to trade from your house and shoot for 6 figures or so then what I'm saying is not relevant. It's (relatively) easy to create a workable trading strategy. But to truly leverage it you need very low clearing fees, easy money to borrow for margin financing and the exchange and regulators to look upon you favorably. Yeah, this is far down the road and might not happen. But it's a big hurdle to overcome if later on you decide you want to really make a go at it.
Just for perspective, last time I switched clearing companies they gave me $1 Billion worth of risk with no money in the account. It seems crazy. I thought it was crazy. I didn't fund the account for several weeks and when I did I sure didn't put in their $5M minimum deposit. And the fees are absurdly low. Wouldn't have happened without the connections I had made at CRT years before.
It depends on what your ultimate goal is. If you just want to trade from your house and shoot for 6 figures or so then what I'm saying is not relevant. It's (relatively) easy to create a workable trading strategy. But to truly leverage it you need very low clearing fees, easy money to borrow for margin financing and the exchange and regulators to look upon you favorably. Yeah, this is far down the road and might not happen. But it's a big hurdle to overcome if later on you decide you want to really make a go at it.
Just for perspective, last time I switched clearing companies they gave me $1 Billion worth of risk with no money in the account. It seems crazy. I thought it was crazy. I didn't fund the account for several weeks and when I did I sure didn't put in their $5M minimum deposit. And the fees are absurdly low. Wouldn't have happened without the connections I had made at CRT years before.
1.Avoid the scammers who will try to sweet talk you out of that $50k.
2.Use free demos - all the good brokers offer them
3.Choose your route carefully e.g. technical analyst, programming, fundamentals etc.
4.Lots of wheat and chaff on free forums.
5. If you decide on a mentor later then make sure he is singing on the same hymn sheet.
6. Think out your moves carefully and attain each objective. Too easy to just goof around and get nowhere.
7. Aim to make on average about 2% of your wedge per working day.
8. Use a broker that has a vibrant forum. They will tell you about the broker. No positive forum - leave well alone.
Good luck.
If trading is not for you then do something else.
2.Use free demos - all the good brokers offer them
3.Choose your route carefully e.g. technical analyst, programming, fundamentals etc.
4.Lots of wheat and chaff on free forums.
5. If you decide on a mentor later then make sure he is singing on the same hymn sheet.
6. Think out your moves carefully and attain each objective. Too easy to just goof around and get nowhere.
7. Aim to make on average about 2% of your wedge per working day.
8. Use a broker that has a vibrant forum. They will tell you about the broker. No positive forum - leave well alone.
Good luck.
If trading is not for you then do something else.
As others have pointed out, this seems to be the best place for you to start. Learn from those who have seen and done it all and make some good connections.
This is ultimately a business which requires savvy. You're going to need to learn to think for yourself, trust your own judgement, when to listen to others and when to rely on yourself. Who to listen to is your first important choice.
You're giving yourself next to no time to learn how various aspects of this business work and to figure out a strategy to make money. Respectfully, you don't know enough yet to make an informed decision on whether you should be trading. At this stage you should be looking to learn, not earn. Anyone with $5k can open a futures account - why do you think that is, who does it benefit, and do you want to become part of that food chain?
Yes. However you should thoroughly familairise yourself with the advantages available to other entities in terms of costs, access to markets, speed of execution, etc. It may be that you would require or prefer some or all of these advantages, depending on the niche you choose.
Not sure you're asking the right questions here. Why would a market be "best"? Its horses for courses. Why the little guy? What if you become a big guy one day, will that mean your chosen market and everything you've learned will no longer be useful to you?
Choosing who to listen to is going to be difficult as you lack the experience to judge the information being given. This site can be helpful in some respects, harmful in others as there is a lot of self promotion, incorrect information, etc being bandied about. Don't waste your time chasing dead ends.
Exchange members and those who have been in the business for decades are good places to start. Network and meet as many of these in person as possible. Learn as much as possible from them. Do what you can to offer value to these people in return. On ET, "nokomisjeff" has been in the business for three decades and has an excellent blog (master of the universe on wordpress) with plenty of useful material. I'd also recommend reading some posts by "bone" (mainly spreads) and "Rearden Metal" (equities). The latter has commented about the impact HFT had on equity prop firms and his own short term trading. I'm futures only so cannot comment on HFT.
I've had the pleasure of reading some posts by garachen today and it is clear his advice is worth heeding. Perhaps review his posts for some differences between trading retail and non retail.
This should be enough to get you started. You're responsible for all of your decisions in this business, so choose wisely and good luck with your efforts.