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Thanks everyone! I will look further into those suggestions. For those of you who suggested demo accounts. If you are receiving data, aren't those "free trial" demos for a limited time. I probably would need to call around and talk with some of these platform providers. Seems too good to be...

I have a friend who is not a US citizen, but is in school and interested in getting into algorithmic system development. He really needs to start getting direct interactions in live markets and getting his feet wet writing code for some algo trading system back testing and even just getting...

Thanks for the suggestion. Do they have the capability to split the bid and ask order flow data? Do they let you bring up earler composites of that data?

That's what I want to find out. From what I can see comparing my ToS platform to what it looks like Jigsaw had to offer, these are the differences. ToS seems to have a limited range where orders are shown (like maybe 10 ticks worth of order data in either direction). this just shifts up or...

I'm glad you brought up Jigsaw. This was the webinar guy's DOM of choice. Is it something that can run on its own, or does it need to link up to a brokerage. I otherwise really like thinkorswim. Their charts are very nice and I have grown accustomed to the "thinkscript" so I can write my own...

I've been looking into using depth of market ladders to support the execution decisions for my trades (I focus on futures markets). I currently use thinkorswim which does have a ladder and level II but after watching some webinars on the subject, I'm getting the impression the DOM I am getting...

apologies. I lumped you in with the conversation that seemed to be focused on "edge" equating to unfair advantage. When I started the thread I was looking more to discuss the advantage you get though skill, research or statistical analysis. Good old "wholesome" edge :-)

SMH I really want to change the title of this thread. "hey profitable discretionary traders, why do you think you will continue to be profitable"

Ok, I see. This all really does come down to semantics. For me there are two approaches to trading discretionary and non discretionary. Both are based in interpreting price and volume or some derivative of them. With non discretionary you are blindly following signals that you have back...

@Redneck ....well you're an abrasive SOB, aren't you. (Not that I don't appreciate the response). Look, I actually don't think we have schemas for markets/ trading that are so different. You say "manual" trading .... I say "discretionary". You say the 3 layers are mechanical, discretionary...

You can write back testing code to account for all kinds of things. My partner and I would factor in closing trades on Friday, closing trades before contract roll, or even block out periods where you would only follow the system during certain hours. Yes, there will be uncertainty inside the...

ok, right. I need to stop using the word "edge" because I am being misinterpreted. What I really mean to discuss is why a trader thinks they can win over time. Unless you can define why you are a profitable trader, I'm pretty sure your days are numbered. As a discretionary trader, I am...

Well, that's a bit jaded, yes? On a forum for retail traders, you are basically saying retail traders don't have a chance.

This book is excellent. The Evaluation and Optimization of Trading Strategies by Robert Pardo It provides a great schema for understanding systems trading and how to properly backtest, the difference between overfitting and optimization, and how to run a walk-forward test. In addition it...

Indeed. This was not meant to be an example of the kind of discretionary trade I would do on a regular basis. (There was no technical context which gave me any frame work to make it). It was just something anomalous I did for fun, but did demonstrate the importance I see in setting up...

Well, in the direction I intend to go in as a trader I plan to disregard any fundamentals and only build context technically. That is a decision based on the fact that I submit to the reality as a retail participant I DON'T know the fundamental factors. I can only build a hypotheses based on...

This is my generic way of saying: what is the big picture (long time frame ----> intraday)? What is the underlying status of the "auction"? What are my hypotheses for what will happen next?

Well yes..... "edge" is a little silly. However, when there is a discussion about knowing what your's is as a trader, the context holds more water. I think it is really important for a trader to understand SPECIFICALLY WHY they think they will win a zero sum game with consistancy. As I...

I am a developing trader who is just coming out of a phase of experimenting with algorithmic non-discretionary trading. With that approach, knowing what your edge is can be directly quantified with proper back testing. Since then I have abandoned systems trading because I became frustrated...

I did read that article the other day. I having trouble assimilating the difference between what I see in the chart above and what is depicted in the article. Both fall apart..... one recovers, the other does not. Perhaps the difference is in the expected volatility of returns. The drawdown...