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Wait, long wrangle is a double ratio backspread, and your position is a double ratio (front)spread - so maybe a reverse wrangle? I don't know.

long or short a wrangle - I can't remember which :)

I'm thinking the big problems are gaps and slippage in a fast moving market.

Since he said a good risk:reward ratio, I assume he's talking about a reverse IC (short condor equivalent). I always get confused with the terminology of long or short IC, so I just say the condor equivalent or whether it's a positive theta position or not.

It should be the same strike price, so sell the $45 Put.

I don't know the rules or what trades are allowed in a cash account, but I could see how a covered call is different from any other option trade (except a cash-secured put) because covered call uses no leverage, and no margin is required. A single long call or put would be fine in its form, but...

BAC had an earnings announcement last Friday. Even though the stock moved in your direction, the implied volatility got crushed.

Yeah, my few pre-earnings calendar plays were doing great in the previous weeks, but those positions lost a significant portion of their profits this week because of the vol.

congrats to both types of positions (bebpasco's and atticus') - interesting that both the reverse calendar and calendar positions made money. I have a question about atticus' position. With the single calendar spread position, obviously it wants the price to stay in a certain range, and...

That makes sense. Yes, my IC position would underperform other positions inside one sigma because of the insurance. I think that long streak statement is important. It could really lull you into a false sense of security, so I'd rather have my strategies tested fiercely sooner than later so...

atticus, that's an interesting statement. I'm now trying out both IC and calendars, which are doing well because the market is currently slow. But talking specifically about the IC, I put on extra wings insurance (I'm probably overweight with the amount I put on), and that, along with...

Yeah the cost of initiating the double flys is relatively expensive. I was looking at a particular strategy using it that potentially yielded small profits over a very wide range, but it may turn out that most of the profit ends up in the hands of the broker and MM. I've also been looking at...

Mark, if you buy calls and puts outright, doesn't that take a big chunk out of the initial credit? What sort of ratio are you doing it at, like 1:10? Thanks.

Thanks John. I have looked at unbalanced butterflies like the BWB, though I've never actually traded one. It seems like a popular trade. I do see the similarities with IC as far as being a high probability trade, when you go pretty far OTM. Mostly I've been doing pregnant flies close to...

John, I like the insurance idea - it's certainly more appealing to me than a straight IC . Being very risk averse, I'd probably end up adjusting too soon on ICs. Even if it eats up some of the profits, the insurance fits my personality better, as I don't like being so negative on gamma...

ok, thanks for the clarification. I like the two flies more, but the single pregnant butterfly is worth considering if the two flies will be difficult to execute.

atticus, I may have misunderstood what you said. Were you saying to purchase the the double butterflies as just two long butterflies (not iron flies) on each side, or were you saying just to have one butterfly for the whole position with the body ATM? First I thought it was the latter...

Huh, that might work just as well for some of my trading ideas. I was thinking I wanted more protection and potential profit if the underlying moves while still profitting if the underlying doesn't move (I'm not holding till expiration), but maybe just changing the outer strikes of the ATM...

Hi John, Thanks for the post. So if I'm reading this right, you're putting some debit CTM spreads on both sides when you initiate the IC, and not as part of an adjustment?

Is this trade too impractical to implement, with regards to commissions and slippage? I'm talking about a placing a butterfly on each side of the underlying price. How should this 8-legged beast be put on? Maybe as 2 ICs (first is a reverse IC and then the second further OTM IC)? Thanks.