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Thank you for a useful contribution! Yes, $ based trail stop doesn't make sense in a varying contract framework. PATAK - something more for you to explain! Justrading - If you are open to discuss, maybe a good idea to share your findings in a new thread and it might result into some...

Sorry to break the news to you. But people in this thread are quoting CFTC injunctions and civil penalties etc. in very similar cases. Do you think Patak is going to be holidaying when people are debating such serious issues about his firms 'supposed' malpractices and mis-representation. He...

Reviewed the PDF, its not written there whether it is on open profit or realized closed profit. Yes, rule perse makes sense. My only point is that Patak should increase the trigger for trailing profit to come in at a minimum of 1000$ or 1500$ on a 50k account. Till now I have used ES. Let...

This guy completed his combine, met all the profit objectives and then PATAK said they won't move him to live trading due to 'XYZ'. BREACH OF PROMISE AND BREACH OF CONTRACT! Thirst, go ahead and file a complaint with NFA and CFTC. As far as I know, filing a complaint with CFTC will not cost you...

Thanks, nice analysis and good post!

This is off-topic but since Don has graced this thread and Lucias has talked about Bright in his posts, I will make a comment. Bright is a MUCH better option for a trader compared to a firm like Patak. If I give 1 star to Patak, I will give 3 stars to Bright. Bright is an equity prop shop...

Alright, my point is it doesn't make any sense whatsoever in having a trail stop kicking in at 500$. And it should be a minimum of 1000$ for everyone, traders shouldn't need to negotiate on this with Patak. Because trail at 500$ just doesn't make sense if a trader has to meet his performance...

What Don thinks or what you think is not the topic of discussion on this thread. We were discussing Patak here. Matter at hand is their max 50% trailing stop loss kicking in at 500$ open profit. You mentioned that 500$ profit on one day is an outlier. So, you reasoned as soon as a trader goes...

My impression was that when you say you are not going to be backed, you were referring that Patak and similar shops will not back with that kind of DD. If you suddenly started comparison with Getco and Citadel of the world, ofcourse they won't back with 2% daily DD. I know that. But please...

You are massively underestimating. They have around 50 live guys now. So, at a 10% conversion rate (which is extremely generous, Mav says it is like 1% for first timers), you can compute number of combiners to be at least 500 a month.

From his ACD thread, my impression was that Mav must be raking in 500k at least a year. But alas, now I think maybe he makes 50k a year from his trading. That is also good performance for an independent trader - but nothing compared to how highly I used to think of him before.

LOOOLLLLLLLL Have you really gone nuts maverick! I presented you with logic and a detailed example, and this is your best response! Just to put things back to track and expose your arbitrary reply: On a 50k account, 1k is 2%. In my example, the trader was hitting 2% (950$) on 2 days out...

Biggest academic study done ever on live financial markets on Earth has demonstrated that past performance is extremely predictive of future trader performance. http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=247268&highlight=odean

I explained this very clearly in point 2) in my post#3 on this thread. I can't believe I have to explain it again. Alright, lets do it one more time. Logic: Hitting 250$ on any given day is easy. But trader has to average 250$. And he will have losing days at loss limit. He will also have...

Thanks! Alright, good to know clearly that there are no profit objectives but a trader has to watch out for risks. But what is the exact condition under which you cut-off the LIVE trader and send him back to Combine. These set of conditions is not written anywhere on the website. And I think...

Yes, I see that Patak has sorted out the PDF discrepancy. I am surprised none of the traders who actually filled that PDF noted it before - I guess Patak has been running for probably more than a year now. I am not against trailing stop, but a 500$ limit is too low imo. As I said, ultimately...

People you know does matter a lot. But track records matter also, especially anything > 4-5 yrs across different market conditions and it matters a whole lot. Thanks for the invite but I am not in Chicago, so maybe next time.

Kevin - you are the man! Baron - I hope you are reading this and listening :)

Michael, Thanks for giving a point by point response. The conversation on this thread has led to a much more detailed analysis of the program at Patak than available on the website. I have raised my reservations and you have put forward your points. I think its up to individual traders now to...

out of 2 @ 1404.5 Keeping 2 long overnight with average @ 1399. Stop on these at 1384.