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ddunbar I will admit I am a little disappointed at your reaction but not surprised. On previous occasions you have been more gracious when confronted with the 'bleedin obvious' , but this time a straight forward statement seems to have gotten your irrational defenses out in their true...

Yes that's right. It's all you are doing. Look at your post above. You recommend word play. The bible doesn't any longer stack up to what can be proved or has become known in science, so you re-interpret its meaning. The words don't change in the Bible. It is attempted in the different...

word play ddunbar, word play.... ..... "also says".... does not eliminate the previous definition in some magic way. I agree with other definitions for atheist/atheism in their context too. It is of course obvious such understandings do not disbar the primary one as there is no...

ddunbar's Ghost, You really should read the links before clipping them. Reading the first few lines from one of them shows...... "What is atheism?" Atheism is characterized by an absence of belief in the existence of gods. "But isn't disbelieving in God the same thing as believing he...

TM, Surely it is apparent enough – ‘messy’ as opposed to ‘not clean’, that's all. Look, you're now so far off target you will soon be shooting yourself in the foot. Simply put, you cannot reasonably assume the same circumstances apply with someone who has not yet attained...

The the description / definitions I have given which you are still trying to dance around with semantics are now being muddled by you, although circumstances of use also were clearly explained. Atheism can properly be used to refer to a condition, state or quality according to the...

The point I don’t get is why you don’t get the point. clue... we were talking of... new born babies 'clean slate' no previous cognizant experience. not adults 'messy slate' with previous cognizant experience what's next? You going to do a ZZzz and ask if your car's an...

Perhaps if you define what a 'state of being is' seeing you use the term. Theism with God . A/the state of being with God. What's the problem? It's strange ddunbar, you attach a requirement for the significant basic meaning of 'state of being', but the very etymology and purest form of...

....the point you apparently think you now have made from the one you first took aim at and missed. wtf any of this has to do with babies and 'clean slates'....nevertheless.. Perhaps you might find the shooting range before you have a go at a target if I put my reply in the form of a...

then you miss the point. Did you take any aim at all?

You've missed the point. At birth there can be no indoctrination. The child is oblivious to concepts of a God ie: theism. The child's cognizance of such things is as ddunbar's 'clean slate'. But we know it is without any theism. There is a word which commonly describes that state. Have a guess...

Can be, yes, why not? and such a state need not be permanent or lethal !! Don't tell me pertinent to this discussion you consider a state of understand/non-understanding and a worldview are essentially different in some way !? itchy scritchy patchy poo now the devil wont get you. That...

You are incorrect. You are still playing semantics. Atheist/theist is, always was, not only a worldview. Oxford English Dictionary - • suffix forming nouns: 1 denoting an action or its result: baptism. 2 denoting a state or quality: barbarism. 3 denoting a system, principle, or...

Right, they are not born with religion or theism. Without religion - non religion. Without theism - atheism. They are born with an innate propensity. Agreed. There onwards you have argued by truism . They are not born with THE ____ (fill in the blank) innate propensity. Those items in the...

Contradiction in terms. Believing in AN omnipotent?... what? one of many?!? So your omnipotent is more so than someone else's? Simply not possible As any God can be believed omnipotent - including Thunder's F U (peace be upon it)..... then non actually can be. Gilbert is as near as it is...

We are dancing around what is innate and what is learned. It's a strong definitive word. A homo sapien completely isolated from birth, not being able to interact would not necessarily perish because of an "innate" call to socialize or become a political animal. A human would surely expire...

Then let's agree on the intrinsic / innate characteristics of humans. But that should not include the direct attributes learned consequentially from those innate characteristics, which is what you are doing. The point is we were discussing babies innate characteristics, which amount to...

May I suggest... You either want to hold a rational discussion or act like ZZzz. You can't do both at the same time. That is a ZZzism. Didn't you consider contradictions like that really aren't worth discussion.

As mentioned, humans do appear to be 'hard wired' , but by specific limited definition, not by the general descriptions you make. Social creatures yes, but not innately so. Tribal creatures more so, but again not innately. Survival instincts are mostly innate, but not always. Otherwise there...

I am specifically referring to the a-political person who has no knowledge of politics. They do not have to 'take a position' to be unaware because of the lack of information or knowledge. At birth the position is they have no knowledge of politics like it or not. Nothing to do with taking a...