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While I am not an automated trader, my belief is still: the most profitable trading takes places when one "automates oneself" acting manually, but almost mechanically, so that only difference with automation is more nuances being considered. It's realistic goal to develop a solid manual...

That's philosophical question, irrelevant to the discussion. In practical reality we have to distinguish subject from the object and act assuming they are truly different. Probably there are people who truly achieved Zen state and are able to trade as if the market was part of them and they...

Agree. Basically it just requires a lot of patience and be willing to do the hard work. A lot of it. Studying charts for months and probably years, then carefully collecting statistical information, spending endless hours in Excel is not something most think trading is like. In reality it's...

Wrong. If I enter/exit trade based on 1,2,3-like algorithm it's an objective decision making process. Either price action satisfies the set of my rules or it doesn't. Nothing subjective there.

Yes, that's exactly what I mean. Objective edge must exist in your trading decisions. It can be very nuanced and thus unlikely possible to automate (on computers of our days, maybe in future it changes), but it's still objective. The rest just makes sure that edge is applied properly...

Yet it still takes certain level of intellect to understand the basics of quantum physics. You unlikely could explain it to a monkey. :D

Yep. I know very successful traders who also use stochastic for that purpose. And it's a leading indicator for them, not lagging.

There is. What differs successful traders from losers is that first know patterns truly well, including nuances of truly profitable patterns, while losers believe if they read about a pattern in a book they are experts. :D

Moving averages can be objectively and very successfully used as a LEADING indicator.

Concept of past prices affecting future prices is not ridiculous at all. Furthermore, this concept is much similar to the reflexive theory presented by George Soros in his "Alchemy of Finance". Market participants see prices changing and base their future decisions much on that PRIOR price...

Jack, Ironically, despite I never managed to study trading the way you taught during our Yahoo messenger conversations back in 2006 (or 7, I already forgot, ha), some of your drills indeed are very helpful for newbies. Carefully observing and writing down every bar of market action for...

Two trades today. One -1.50 and another (second mouse gets the cheese) +2.75.

Absolutely and that's why human traders still exist and prosper. :)

Agree on nuances, but if think of it, most nuances are still objective. Yes there are many, but each makes logical sense and is not just some "feeling". So probably it's a complex formula, too complex for automation currently, but doesn't mean it's not objective.

I started this thread: http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=273468 in order to discuss TA as "objective vs. psychological/savant skill" in general. Every participant of this thread is welcome there as debate will be on topic in the right place now. :)

Following the discussion in my recent journal in order to clear it from the off-topic discussion I suggest the following debate here: TA (technical analysis), is it objective edge or rather a psychological subjective skill? My own belief is TA patterns can be objectively defined and many...

Surf's journal is much less about actual trading, yet it's alive and well. :) I suggest move the general TA debate into a separate thread indeed and myself will just stick to posting performance here with on-topic discussion only.

Yea, a separate mega-debate thread on TA would be a good place for these talks.

I will appreciate if number of the off-topic posts declines so that percentage of actual calls among posts increases. :) Also there's no rush, I never promised to provide X calls within Y period of time. So, hovercars? Maybe, I'm not in a hurry. :D P. S. Four trades.

Thank you. I don't rely on luck though. :)