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What were you trading? Eminis?

It doesnt matter if he is scalping, longterm, swing. He, I, anyone who is using full penny increments, we are getting screwed. We have to constantly pay the spread, and for any professional trader not HFT, it is death by a thousand cuts as someone eloquently put it. For you to sit there and...

You should listen now. Subpenny front running hurts in 2 ways. Not getting filled on limits. Being force to take away liquidity. I dont know why you cant get that through your head.

There were specialists... They actually HAD to make a market, and many times got stuck with positions going against them.. And now we have HFT,s who like to fancy themselves the new marketmakers.. Disappear at the first sign of trouble. Provide NO service to anyone but themselves. What...

http://www.themistrading.com/article_files/0000/0519/THEMIS_TRADING_White_Paper_--_Latency_Arbitrage_--_December_4__2009.pdf Good read. Takes the steam out of "a few pennies shouldnt matter" argument.

More nonsense to take the focus off the real issue at hand.

Well I was about to go to bed, thought I would read one last article on the subject. It explains the situation elegantly and full detail. http://www.themistrading.com/article_files/0000/0519/THEMIS_TRADING_White_Paper_--_Latency_Arbitrage_--_December_4__2009.pdf Please take time to...

Asiaprop, I enjoyed reading your posts in this thread. With that good night.

Here we go. Semantics time. He made valid points. Why don't you disprove them. What disagreements do you have with the points he made?

Wtf does that mean? I joined in 2005 and was trading in 99. How does that sentence that wasted my time and yours have anything to do with this thread? Ive read his points, and he sure as h*ll has more of an inkling of whats going on than you do.

Are you fking retarded? They are not required to make a market! They simply step away at the first salvo. Hence, they are worthless as market makers. Thats devolution, not evolution.

Wow... You seriously dont understand whats going on do you? Yes. There are market participants who can see a retail order mili seconds before it hits the quotes. Just like they can trade in sub pennies , an exclusive party.

And its getting worse. How many examples are we seeing now of how guys putting in limit orders and being front run by a subpenny the entire time they step? Its happens all the time.

FK that other guy . What you are saying is correct. No , they dont have custom made computers, but they do have high end equipement, and the best HFT firms have temperature controlled room after room filled with server on top of servers the size of a football field. All with one purpose...

Once HFTs disappear you will see real liquidity begin to build in the markets, and real price action take over. Right now the market is a joke as the 1k point drop showed.

Bullsht. You as any specialist back in the day, they told everyone daytraders PROVIDED liquidity. Something HFT does not do no matter how much they pretend. There is a thin layer of liquidity on this market which is exploited by HFTs and once they sapped that crust the market plummeted ...

Hmm.. so you are saying if you trade more, the SEC allows you to front run? I agree! Thats exactly how it works. And if you dont think making a market vs breaking one doesnt hurt ANYONE not trading 10 million shares in the long run on anyones balancesheet, you are truly a retard. Im...

Uh no... I never got filled. Someone stepped in front of the seller at a sub penny and front ran me.

You are saying its my broker doing this? How come it cant be another broker of a HFT?

How does routing out of darkpools help me? Especially when noone else is doing it. Lets think about this. Is there anyway to avoid these go*ddamn mothr farkin programs? How about undisplayed limits? F F FF f!!! I cant just go market all the time. The fees are RIDICULOUS!