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Well, your point about Black Box technology is absolutely harmonious to my original point. BB's cannot dissect and technologically front run an unknown real-time event...that is why I stated they work "at times." The nucleus is that we have made a tragically incorrect assumption with our...

In an attempt to consolidate my views on this topic, I think the following adds needed lucidity to my conclusion. As traders I believe we do well to explore further the origin of what we consider objective stats or pure mathematics. If you view emotions as water everyone has it. From water...

Ozzy, Yes do that. The bottom line is there is no need to re-invent. Prices are all-around us. There is a reason the biggest, most profitable corporations are just that. They understand the emotional component of the consumer all too well. If you just sit back, open your eyes and look...

Yes, That is just you...remember you are a trader so these studies are not based on experienced traders but the larger generic investor, I would venture to say you will rarely see a national campaign for a 2 dollar anything but you will see .99 cent this or that, In fact the $2 bill was...

If you look at say 500 million shares traded in the Dow components over a period of 5-10 years, at various times of day, various market conditions, various quarters, etc... you will find that your chart will have price congestion at certain numbers... Remember, trading stks is still just...

Back to topic.... An example of how my emotional chart works is this... .99, .24, .01, .89, and .76 are some of the most important numbers within a dollar. psychologically, humans "feel" better when they buy a car for 58,999...that same car for 59,001 would take longer to sell. There is an...

Maybe we're already doing that, but we're using a more respectable title like, pure mathematics. -Ross

Yes, I agree it sounds ridiculous, but unfortunately its very accurate. I've created my own trading system, it populates a chart not with lines or candlesticks representing prices but rather emotional extremes...its is very interesting and I'm finding success with it. It in no way is...

That makes 3 of us, or 2 I guess...fuzzy math..:D

Gann, I see you talk about shrinks alot in your posts, are you one? Anyway, back to topic. -Ross

Mike, I appreciate your thoughts but if you dig a bit deeper I believe you will find the following. "Pure" connotes without a giver. One cannot truly accomplish purity unless one is the first to exist in that medium. There is no pure human being because none of us are pure parents. Remember...

Gann, I fully understand your resistance to the concept...we traders like to think we aren't susceptible to emotions...sorry but we are. The correlated or non-coorelated instruments you are observing is a result of everything I've already detailed in this thread. Again, humans, based...

Gann, The models are not emotionally driven because the emotions are doing the driving, we, the traders are in the back seat being driven. Look at it this way...how many stock charts have you looked at for IPO's in 2007? None, why? because stats are results not causes. Now there is alot of...

Mike, Great reply! You are making my exact point. As a student of language, connotation vs denotation, stated inference versus stated meaning the phrase "emotional mathematics" is not as oxymoronic as your quick glance may suggest. The historical discovery of scientific theory that then...

The natural question is can one be a very succesful trader, in today's market, simply by looking at price behaviour? No charts, no fundamental research, no objective analysis, just watching numbers go by and trading off feeling... Without experience I don't think so, but for the experienced...

Indahook, The point of my post is for traders seeking improvement to re-evaluate the concept of trading without emotions, as I've heard so many teach over the years. I think that is a myth, a factual impossibility. One cannot swim in a waterless ocean. -Ross

Wow...it's so difficult to keep a conversation on topic. Gann, first you have no idea how long I've been in this business, second, I work with some of the most profitable "discretionary" traders, at one of the largest hedgies in New York..that noise you hear is your theory crashing into the fact...

As trading becomes increasingly more statistical in nature one must acknowledge the birth of another question, what is the nature of statistics? I am rapidly approaching an interesting conclusion…emotions. The general belief that systematic, analytic models are less emotional than...

I have acct with Benchmarq and I would recommend them to you. Nick seems to be a straight up guy...they clear through LEK which is very basic so make sure you get your sheets daily. Overall, I will continue to work with them..great leverage, they answer the phone, blackwood is great, fast...

Bernake, Bernake, Bernake...wow. I will not attack his person but I will say something concerning his communication skill-lessness. One that can eloquently communicate average ideas will always be more successful than a stumbling genius. Communication skill is paramount to content, and one...