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So you admit that the only reason you stick to Christianity is for the emotional benefits? I'm curious, would you agree with the statement that there's a fine line (perhaps no line!:D) between someone who has regular "spiritual experiences" and someone who suffers from mental illness? :D...

I'm an ex-Christian. My path was a devout Christian --> agnostic on Christ, faithful to God --> throwing in the towel on the whole fiasco.

But on what basis do you differentiate between your religious experiences and the religious experiences of other religions? So far you've given me that you believe there's a "spiritual reality" to life. Which I can only read as there being no essential difference between a Christian...

Is this an admission that there is nothing particularly special about Christianity? A "spiritual reality" could mean a thousand different things, couldn't it? None of which need necessarily have a god behind the curtains.

Jem, I'm aware of the Josephus claim, the so called Testimonium Flavium. I think it is pretty accurate is I say this widely regarded as a later Christian interpolation, even by Christian scholars themselves. I know there are some people that cling to it but I think the honest approach would be...

Jem, I really don't see any reason at all to assume that one side of the genealogies is of Mary's side. Why? (1) It would be highly unusual, if not unheard of, in ancient times to justify one's position in society on the basis of descendancy from the mother's side. and (2) More...

Jem, I would challenge your claim that independant historical records support the existance of jesus (even as a man). I'd be interested to see what you have.

Well, it's so much that I think they're "mindless" (although I don't rule it out!:D), it's that I think they are mistaken and that they refuse to accept alternative (and, imo, much better) explanations for what they think they are experiencing. If Christianity was the world's only religion, I...

Yes, they can and I bet most are. But those are EMOTIONAL reasons, aren't they? A pure seeker of truth must PUT ASIDE what he WISHES was the case and make his best guess at what IS the case. Thus I speculate that the vast majority of believers find "God" because they are LOOKING FOR HIM...

Correctamundo. Who are these guys kidding? It's not as though they've STUDIED the subject and can point out its flaws. They just reject it reflexively because it conflicts with their religious beliefs; namely, that WE ARE SO SPECIAL, that everything is here for us, that WE are the goal of the...

Umm.. I must admit that I can't quite work out how that's a "better" or even a "related" example. Maybe your next one will shed some light.

Shiner, that wasn't the point of the example. The example just showed how a normal event of a shingle falling from a roof and killing someone could be spun into a tale of "amazing coincedences", too great to have happened by chance alone. You don't really believe anything "supernatural"...

No you don't see huh? Gee, why aren't I surprised. Have you read the book? If not why not? Isn't this issue close to your heart? Do you not wish to understand what scientific methods have to say about the "amazing coincidences" that you claim exist? A man is walking down the street...

Why do you do this Shiner? This has NOTHING to do with ANYTHING we are talking about. Are you honestly claiming that nobody would have EVER thought of raising a family with a mother and father teaching their kids good moral habits unless the Bible pointed it out? That is ABSURD. That...

Actually, I take that back. I can see no reason for the world to be puncuated with reports of the supernatural is there was a "creator". This is just typical theistic conflation of "creator" with "God". Try this: Planet earth is covered with reports of the "supernatural" just as you...

Why are you ignoring me Shiner? I quoted to you BIBLE SUPPORT for the notion of eternal hell.

Well, I'll give you a tip then. "Combating" it by merely repeating your unfounded assertions that the universe "looks just as you would expect if there was a creator" is not going to work. In fact, given our ABJECT FAILURE to find any evidence of this creator's existance, EVEN IF we accept...

No, you're right, the universe being this big doesn't prove anything. However, if we are going to use the state of the universe to determine whether it's more or less likely we were created, than I'm going to say less, much less. If the "goal" of the universe is US, as you seem to believe...

Shoe, I really can't be bothered discussing theology, especially as you are yet to come up with one good reason to believe in GOD. Yes, GOD, not some nameless, ambiguous "Creator" -- which, for you, is a simple hop, skip and a jump away from God, but which for me need not have ANYTHING in...

Shoeshine, those are all statements that ONLY be made with the benefit of hindsight. This universe only looks "well-ordered" to you because it managed to have YOU IN IT. The implication is that WE ARE SPECIAL. Any OTHER universe would not have US in it. But... so what? Any other universe...