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I follow you AR15, let's just say the ETF does not have a decay factor. It is perfect 100% reverse of the equity/index it is supposed to be the reverse of. And that equity/index goes to zero. What does the price of that reverse ETF go to? It would seem to be... INFINITY? But that can't be...

Well, its more of a theoretical question. I agree going long would make more sense. But theoretically?

... like say SH or something. If I short that, and the SP500 goes to zero, what does the share price of my shorted ETF go to? Thanks.

Wholly crap, just did some more testing along these lines. Found some AMAZING stuff. Truly amazing results. I'm discontinuing my participation in this thread, shit just got real and profitable secrets must be kept lol.

Well you answered my question ph1l, thanks!

Sorry for newb question, but what is IVR?

Best trade in my life was buying TVIX 56 selling 940, holding a few shares many weeks. Hmmm, a 1,578.57% return, that's something you don't see very often!!!

You made a freaking killing on that trade Ken, congrats!

Yep, we are thinking around the exact same lines I think zghorner. Shorting UVXY and buying UVXY calls way out of the money I looked at before, but those calls are pretty pricey given the circumstances (how much it can pop so quickly).

Yes I agree shorting entails different (greater) risks than going long. Which pushes even more in favor, among my three tests, of just holding SPY long since it beats the short strategies anyways. One thing I *really* like about the short strategies, however, is that as the market goes up...

Why is that zghorner? And all three of my tests were on things that were long the market. So if I wanted to long the market, what would you say I should put that is much more effective than either of the two shorts I tested? Thanks!!!

Not relevant. Stay on point. Focus.

What is that chart of? My eyes are going bad in my old age. THanks.

Whole. Lee. Sheet. Overnight, you FINALLY got a good song! It only took like 3 years! But you didn't just get a good one, you got a GREAT one! I LOVE that song, and I remember when it came out. I was in high school, and it actually came out like the last two or weeks before summer ended...

Because human emotions today might be just slightly (or more) similar to the way they were in the past? Seriously, who is letting these new guys in here with this dumb shit? Go short some GME, wait for a month.... THEN we can talk...

LOL Overnight and DiceareCast, of course I was not serious, are you guys nuts lol? Yall should take a chill pill. Just sit down put on some headphones, and turn this little tune up.... and RELAX lolol....

"If you want to short decaying ETFs, then short something like SQQQ or SPXU. These won't rally as much during bear markets because their movements are determined exclusively by the prices of the major indexes." You mean kind of like shorting SDS, from my original post? But I'll add SQQQ and...

Future tests might be.... stay X% in SPY, nothing else, until VIX hits [40], then put the remaining Y% to work shorting UVXY. See if by testing that can beat just buying and holding the SP500 100%. So many things to test.

Very interesting how so few on here find these very interesting calculations. You'd think that shorting an ETF that losses like 90% a year (I forgot what the actual number is, but it looses HUGELY) would be so much better than simply buying and holding the SP500. But no, it gets CRUSHED on any...

Tee hee hee. Except for the whole 83.5% drawdown lol.