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    the real "war" question

    The survival of the US? bahahaha! Who the fuck, pray tell, is threatening the survival of the US? Lol. Your dimissal of the UN shows just how truly pathetic your awareness of the world is. Truly sad and truly pathetic.
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    Iraqi Freedom

    Why is it such a bad assumption? You mean there aren't the experiences of Lebanon and Saudi Arabia to guide you? If Saudi Arabia was a democracy the troops would be asked to leave in an instant. Having them there alone is the cause of major upset for Arabs.
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    the real "war" question

    I guess that's where you and I differ. I come from a country where politicians will do anything to enrich themselves. And as long as they get away with it they hardly even care who finds out. Also, Iraq, the way I'm seeing the direction of US foreign policy, is just another step to bigger...
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    Damned if we do, and damned if we don't !

    TM, if the UK had a lower percentage of the world's GDP in 1978 than did the USSR, well, obviously, that would translate into a lower level of actual GDP also! Look, here's the simple math. Europe as a whole had 28% of the world's GDP in 78. Using the US GDP in 1978, based on 1996 dollars...
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    the real "war" question

    Jay, whether creating a democratic government is valuable or not is beside the point. Internationally accepted principles, as enshrined in the UN charter, do not allow overthrowing a regime using overt military force just because it might bring about favorable results, over time, for the...
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    Damned if we do, and damned if we don't !

    TM, what's wrong with you? USSR: 9% Europe: 28 Japan:7% As I told you, Europe is comprised of MANY nations, but if we say that the big four, UK, France, Italy and W Germany accounted for 90% of that, and the remaining slice was cut into four, then BASIC MATH shows that not one of...
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    Iraqi Freedom

    It's "too early" to assume that Arabs, practically universally, detest having American troops within their borders?
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    Ultra thinker

    Are you out of your mind? Do you REALLY believe that the US didn't decide not to go after Saddam in 91? That someone else made that decision? Christ man, you are a living example of being brainwashed.
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    Iraqi Freedom

    I could be wrong, but that sounds like a dreamworld scenario, grounded in wishful thinking rather than observable fact.
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    Ultra thinker

    How about the fact that it was entirely a US decision not to go after Saddam in 1991? A decision made, mind you, by many members of the current regime, or its advisors. Hmm, "its all true and you know it" sounds a LOT like the recently MIA MondoTrader? Am I onto something?
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    Damned if we do, and damned if we don't !

    Prove what TM? Are you saying that you don't know the German economy is way bigger than the UK's? Geez, these are hardly guarded secrets! Go do some of your own research man; at least get some idea of the subject matter before wading in and calling every one else idiots!
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    Iraqi Freedom

    Dgabriel, that is totally incompatible with bringing democracy to Iraq. How are you going to have a "power base" there without occupying the country? And if you occupy the country, then how can you claim that you have brought democracy to Iraq? Out of the frying pan into the fire isn't...
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    Iraqi Freedom

    Forget him Iceman. It is clear he knows nought of which he talks. The US government has distinguished history in installing opressive ultra right wing governments, and overturning democratically elected ones. For someone that claims to "see reality", he is tragically misinformed.
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    Ultra thinker

    See, what do you say to this Optional? To someone that pretends to "see reality", yet is incorrect in the most basic of facts? You should have addressed your opening post to yourself, for it is apparent to me you have no interest in determining what is really going on, you only seek to...
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    the real "war" question

    Don't you know Madison? They hate all your freedoms. They are just plain sick with jealousy. Doesn't matter if dozens of other countries enjoy the same freedoms (and more), it's the US they hate for it.
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    Damned if we do, and damned if we don't !

    TM, by the measure of total production it was #2. It is as simple as that. After certain point, if a peron cannot grasp that 1 + 1 = 2, then there's not much I can do. I'm not trying to say that they were the second most productive, because that's measured on a per capita basis. Clearly in...
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    Iraqi Freedom

    Not only that, but former Nazis were employed by the US government. BBC "CIA admits employing Nazis" CNN "Ex-Nazis employed by West a 'horrendous mistake,' historians say"
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    Damned if we do, and damned if we don't !

    TM, in 1978 the nation was called the USSR. Who cares what the actual number was in 1978, you can still rank the economies by size just by knowing what % of world GDP they constituted. And by this measure, the USSR was 2nd. On what basis are you "sure" that the UK and W Germany had...
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    Damned if we do, and damned if we don't !

    The USSR constituted 9% of world GDP in 1978, compared to the US's 20%. Europe, combined, had 28%, but if you divide it by its four main economic powers, UK, France, W Germany and Italy, roughly equally, they were about 7% each. So, obviously the USSR was the 2nd biggest industrial...
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