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I think most discretionary traders have internalized trading rules that they have learned through experience/teaching/observations but are just unable to explicitly describe those rules. Some traders insist they need the squawk box to get a feel for trading mood/activity. This would require...

The problem with this method is there is no way to verify the account statement represents actual trade results of the discretionary system Sabena is using vs. the particular mechanical method I will be using. For example, I have somelong-term options that I am holding til expiration as well as...

No I am not, but I am not here to flex my muscles or to gamble. If I went from $100k to $300k in 6 months you would owe $1600. Fine, let's go for a fixed amount. 1k even. But we must have predefined, verfiable way to monitor results in real-time, and rules for resolving any disputes.

sabena: Allright, how much you want to bet now ? How about average daily profit of the loser's system? Net profit over 6 months / # of trading days. This way if in 6 months you show a loss you won't owe anything, just the scrutiny of this board. If we are both profitable and you're...

I have sent an inquiry to auditrack on how to get real-time or EOD reporting so everyone can view the results. I don't know what type of statistics they provide (probably will have everything we need including Sharpe ratio), and I am also confirming how they handle intraday margin vs overnight...

How will we judge the results? % win does not capture the risk parameters. Do you prefer ROR or Sharpe ratio?

And for exactly this reason the system traders try to encapsulate their entire methodology into defined rules. Some rules are very complex and can do things that perhaps your brain & intuition does not see. The computer could extrapolate a Hilbert transform on the price data that maybe...

How do we prove the bet if we don't use an audit service? I don't have the time to enter all my trades in either, but I will to prove my point. Showing account statements after-the-fact has many problems. The only way to compare to is to submit to third-party review. This way they can also...

Ah, but Eric has only started. If Eric could encapsulate all of the decision-making that Tony goes through, it is very possible that the system will perform better because as humans you make mistake. If you could fully, 100% encapsulate how you use your discretion, then why would not you not...

Sabena, I'm not talking about comparing current records, but a 6-month period moving forward. We will use a third party to enter trades & exits. Hopefully real-time results could be followed by this group in real-time. I have to investigate what services are available. Anyone have...

You may never fully translate Mozart, but you can program a computer to play a piano "like Mozart." How many people do you think listening to live rendition vs. the computer can tell the difference? Even if the computer only approximated Mozart's music by 95%, that's still pretty damn good...

You're definitely an exception, Candle. :) You help out others by posting your experiences. I like sharing and learning myself which is why I post here and at Weatlh-Lab. But there are traders who do quite well and would just rather keep their ideas & techniques to themselves. My reply...

Not to mention that your human condition can affect your trading decision. What if you had a traumatic experience that adversely affected your discretionary trading? What if you are ill and cannot trade for quite some time? With a trading system I could build a TradeStation module and...

Those folks do not follow blind signals, and the other names you have mentioned, let's just say you never know what they really do to make money unless you trade with them on a day in and day out basis. Just like you do not know how many traders on this board actually follow mechanical...

I don't need to build a system to beat the "best intuitive trader". I just need to make money consistently, period. You seem to want to argue a religious war here of "human brain vs computers" or "Big Blue vs Kasparov". Go to an AI board if you want to argue that. The points discussed...

And a senior trading desk manager at Hitman's firm lost $145k in one day and was escorted out of the building. Trading systems win & lose; just as discretionary traders win & lose. My point in mentioning Richard Dennis is not to say the turtle trading system he uses is the end-all-be-all...

Hitman, I am on the line every day & I have the account statements to prove it. Up 60% this year following mechanical signals. I know a lot of intraday traders that have mechanical systems and use them intraday. They scan a basket from a dozen to a few hundred stocks looking for the right...

Are you talking about just an NN simulator (e.g. Neuroshell Trader) or are they selling you the actual model with all the data inputs, data preprocessing rules, NN structure, etc.? If you're just talking about the software then you still have to create the model yourself. It's not as easy as...

I think the discussion here is on two different (related) topics. The type of trading that you, STOCKBROKER, Don Bright, etc. requires tape reading, looking at order flow, and a very short-term time span. When most people refer to "systems trading" I believe the are usually talking about a...

I don't see how two people can both end up ahead if they both take the exact opposite signals, entries & exits. They could end up dead even, but not both ahead. If both sides make the same entries, but different exits, that's a different story.