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I do think that it is a very interesting topic and that there is certainly room for different opinions. I am no mathematician or statistician. I am just a plain workmanlike individual who has spent literally thousands of hours back testing and thinking about trend following and trading. I have...

Let me make myself quite clear. 1) I very much appreciate your posting the code of a very simple 20/10 channel breakout system and some tests results on two different portfolios. Thank you. It is so refreshing to see actual results of an actual system posted and so pleasant not to see the...

With respect, the code you post represents a simple 20/10 channel breakout and does not begin to approach the subtlety of the Turtle System. For one thing, I can not see on what basis you have assumed the addition of new units – the Turtles added further units up to a certain limit when the...

Don't get caught up on single contract testing. That is not the way the Turtles traded. It is not the way to compound your capital either (if you trade a decent system, that is). You need to own software that is capable of testing a portfolio of futures and dynamically sizing postions on a...

What Druid describes is not the Turtle System. Turtles did re-invest. Turtles scaled in. Turtles traded a different portfolio of over 20 futures. Search the web for "The Original Turtle Trading Rules" written by ex-Turtle Curtis Faith. The programming of those rules into Trading Blox was...

Just by way of example, Dean Hoffman is someone that I find interesting. He has always made useful and intelligent contributions to the trading forums I follow (mostly Trading Blox these days) and has started his own trading forum. He even gives away free demonstration trading systems and...

That would certainly seem to be the case. It would be interesting to ask the view of those still marketing these outdated rules. Perhaps they have not backtested them either. Certainly one must assume they have not traded them. There are good systems salesmen out there who have good ideas...

You are quite right of course. Those who have analytical and trading experience tend to be able to quote their own research, their own views and are able to back it up with their own trading results. Those who do not tend to use hearsay and fluff - they will always be quoting what others in...

I was asked to write an article on this topic by Active Traders magazine and have done so. Hopefully, this may do something to dispel some of the uninformed comments posted on the net.

(1) Here is an excerpt from the website of Abraham Trading Company: Research and Modifications Abraham Trading Company attributes its exceptional long-term performance to superior research methods. At Abraham Trading Company we believe we have simply come up with better techniques. Over the...

I recently came across a statement on the web along the following lines: “Occasionally, someone trying to promote something or start a debate will argue that trend following rules must always change due to changing market conditions. This is nonsense. It is a specious argument.” Some...

Looking at Mr Covel's website today reveals the following commentl: "Occasionally, someone trying to promote something or start a debate will argue that trend following rules must always change due to changing market conditions. This is nonsense. It is a specious argument." One has to...

I have never appreciated Jack Hershey's posts on trading - I have never been able to fathom what he was talking about. Perhaps that is my fault. I do however applaud his weltanshauung and have come to feel very much the same way over the years. I find it sad but inevitable that posts such...

I do not understand why anybody should feel shame at being thought a socialist. It seems to be a peculiarly American (and specifically US) attitude. I am sure I have no need to remind you that Christ was a "socialist", probably even a "communist" with a small "c". Christ and his disciples...

Couldn't agree more.

Thunderdog You made my day with your new topic for Michael's next book. You are my hero. In my own position trading I use something akin to a 7 to 10 ATR stop. And trade much less frequently than a 20/10 does. And I don't trade a CBO. Not that there is anything wrong with it - I...

In a profitable trade, TF takes the middle out of a trend - it will go long after the market has started moving up and will exit after the market has started coming down. The reverse for a short. A losing TF trade may well (in retrospect) have bought at a high or shorted at a low. But its a...

I know nothing of Marketscurf or what he does for a living but I do find his attitude towards Trend Following a little comic. All credit to Michael Covel (whatever his shortcomings may be) in pointing out to the world that there are many, many people out there who have profited handsomely...

Hilarious! Well done Slippery Mike!

So there we have it, for the record. Michael Covel does not wish to open up a debate on the Original Turtle Rules or to discuss in detail his assertion that they still work and mine that they need radical updating to produce a profit. I will also leave current and future readers of this...